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Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege
- cloudjacker 10y agoso this isn't the obvious "duh" post tl;dr OP quit their job because they were depressed, got bombarded with quips about how courageous they were, got seduced by conflating their depression with a courageous career choice, then talks about what caused other people to be so excited for them when entrepreneurial endeavors is a privilege reserved for the upper class, instead of a practical social contract of the American Dream
- ZenoArrow 10y agoI agree with your summary, that's what the author is stating, though I don't think the conclusion is true. The best way to start becoming an entrepreneur is to start small. The mantra 'fail early, fail often' is useful, but only if you have the resources to apply it more than once, which means that assuming you're not rich you should start small. Start a side project, do consulting work in your spare time, etc... It's not rocket science. That being said, I understand the desire to quit a job you don't enjoy. I know that desire can override doing things rationally. I have that desire often.
- sharemywin 10y agoI agree with that to don't gamble you have on something. Of course investors want you to because there's no downside to them.
- dwaltrip 10y agoNo he is saying it is disingenuous & dangerous to pretend everyone can just as easily quit everything and become your own boss, with the same risks. For someone who is "less privileged" (or however you are supposed to describe it), the consequences can be more severe if failure happens. While the rich, ivy league grad whose endeavor flops can go home to pops and rebuild his resume, hit up his network, and get a great job no problem. I agree that over-stressing this current reality (as opposed to looking forward and being optimistic) can make things worse. It is a tricky line to walk.
- FreedomToCreate 10y agoPassion without genuine skill and knowledge is useless. You can be passionate about many things, for example cars, but unless you put in the hours, your passion doesn't mean you will be a great car engineer, or automotive company executive. [EDIT] Also want to add that people grossly underestimate the responsibility of being their own boss. There are a lot of tasks you have to handle outside of your usual work like finances, scheduling, client outreach, etc... The OP seemed to understand this, but a lot of people will create a start-up for the sake of being on the creating end of something without really knowing how practical their venture really is. Paul Grahm may disagree though.
- ben_jones 10y agoI think of this every time I come across one of those motivation videos on youtube. It'll have like twenty million views, how many of those people actually took it to heart?
- babuskov 10y agoNodding your head to such video is easy. Actually doing it takes way more effort. Although, I think those millions of views come from people who were lured into watching those by smart marketing message that basically laid out their problem(s) and promised it can be solved "with one simple trick". Number of views only shows that many people share the same problem.
- spdionis 10y agoWhich reminds me of TED talks which are pinnacle of "fakeness" and bullshit in our society. Well, most of them at least.
- zippy786 10y agoCouldn't agree more. Just selling the "Wow" factor. In reality, most talks are baseless, same with startups. Some do manage to make millions just by selling the "Wowness". A whale buys the product and dumps it.
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- yardie 10y agoThe OP quits job and finds out that passion is not the same as entrepreneurship.
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- paulcole 10y ago"You can live at home with your parents and try out ideas" You say this like it's a privilege that everyone has. Not everyone has this option.
- gxs 10y agoOmfg give it a rest already. Yes, some people are more privileged than others. But if you're going to hang out on an internet forum full of professional programmers only to lament how privileged everyone is youre going to have a bad time. In the context of this forum and this discussion, nothing about what the parent said screams privilege. Living with your parents after college is privilege now? Where the hell does this circus end? If you look down the chain far enough, we are all privileged and none of us should be allowed a modicum of joy or happiness because we should all be steeped in guilt.
- corecoder 10y agoYes, living with your parents is (somewhat) privilege. Yes, most of us reading HN are privileged, often in more than one way. No, the alternatives are not forgetting our privilege or giving up joy and happiness, the alternatives are being self absorbed and unaware or trying not to.
- thesimpsons1022 10y agogeeze you're touchy. rush limbaugh got you too worked up today? All he is saying is that not everyone can go home and live with their parents when they fail. Not sure where guilt plays into this other than in your own mind/narrative.
- TeMPOraL 10y agoBut why point it out? It's one of the least "privilegy" privilege I could imagine. Living with parents is the default, something "privileged" people try to escape. It's more economically sensible, so in this way poor people are more "privileged" by being more likely to live with their parents. Yes, you could point out various groups like people who've lost their parents, or people with abusive parents, etc. but at this point one has to realize that for every possible attribute X you could carve out a social subgroup that doesn't have X, and call X-havers privileged. It's meaningless.
- kelukelugames 10y agoRisk taking isn't as brave when your partner pulls a few hundred thousand dollars at a Fortune 500 company.
- yarou 10y ago> We praise people that are “courageous” enough to quit their 9-to-5 and dive into the deep end of the exciting unknown. We idealize and romanticize the idea of being our own boss and being in charge of our own schedule. To take a risk and reap the bountiful benefits. Yet no one talks about the real sustainability or self-sufficiency of this formula when the playing field is never even. There are risks and then there are calculated risks. In other words, you should always know what you're getting yourself into ahead of time. A simple understanding of evidential probability will yield you the proper decision making tools in that regard. I agree with the sentiment that privileged people have a softer landing if they fail, but there are many examples of working class or even penniless entrepreneurs becoming successful. Jan Koum comes to mind.
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- spinPhysician 10y agoTen years ago, the rhetorical buzzwords of that period had gotten really, really tedious. Words like: - Patriot - Freedom - Terrorism - Never Forget - If we don't do X, they win Ten years later, and I'm glad those words are a joke by now. But only to face new words: - Privilege - Trigger - Victim Blaming - Social Justice - Perpetuating false narratives Buzzwords only have currency with people who want others to stop thinking deeply about what they're reading or hearing. When I see buzzwords, especially the politicized variety, I'm pushed away from an article, because I sense an attempt to manipulate and pander to a preferred audience, and that feels dishonest to me.
- james-watson 10y agoIndeed, the political class is frighteningly relentless at churning out new versions their doublespeak vocabularies designed to balkanize the voting population. As you rightly stated, these "power words" change with the political climate, but they all serve the same purpose: to divide and conquer. Balkanize the voter base in any way possible, and you have a fractured and easily controlled populace. It appears modern democracy has been fully gamed.
- gcheong 10y agoWrong post?
- alexc05 10y agoNot really, the title of the BLOG uses 'bullshit', but the post as it appears on backser-news reads 'privilege' (at least via this link https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11802664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11802664, it appeared on my front-page as bullshit so I'm wondering if this has been edited by a HN admin) If you CTRL+F the blog post for "privilege" you will see that the rant eventually turns to the topic to underscore somethingorother. So the comment you're replying to lamenting the use of "privilege" in a somewhat asinine and ranty way seems on target. "Pissed off developer rants" are pretty tired though. I'm not sure I'm really a fan of this guy's line of thinking or his outrage over it. Like it or not, stepping outside of the 9 to 5 / collect-a-regular paycheck is a risk. It is brave in some ways. He's right in others that it does require a safety net & confidence which people raised in low-income environments might not enjoy... but the blog-post doesn't help anything.
- ravenstine 10y agoLife is full of trade-offs, and sometimes the choices you make don't work out. The author sounds pissed off because they took a risk that didn't work out, so he's telling everyone that it's objectively "bullshit" to make himself feel better about his lack of success like it's someone else's fault. The fact is that both the haves and the have-nots take these kind of risks all the time, and few succeed. But some do and many still consider the chances worth the risk, despite their failure. It really doesn't have that much to do with privilege, so much as creating a mental fixture from a statement like "follow your passion" and ignoring the fact that all statements are subject to exceptions. Basically, the post reeks of bitter naive white guy problems, and I want my 3 minutes back. The fact that I am even here is evidence that I quit my previous career to pursue a passion. I also don't assume that the same decision would work for everyone. But I'd hardly call it "bullshit".
- sharemywin 10y agoThe power law of failure exists, though. For every 1 success there are 9 failures for every facebook there are millions of failures. If your not prepared for that you'll be the guy calling bullshit.
- FreedomToCreate 10y agoI don't think you understood the point of the OP's article. This article is calling out the motivation and entrepreneurship gurus who push the idea of entrepreneurship like its some kind of way to unbind yourself and become truly free to people who don't fully understand what it means.
- Animats 10y ago"We are predatorily luring working class people into an entrepreneur lifestyle as the answer to living a meaningful life and loads of money. It’s the new American Dream." Yes. Being an entrepreneur is about selling. Few people are good at selling. If you're good at selling, you can make good money doing it for someone else. Expecting most people to be good at selling is a cruel fantasy.
- shopkins 10y agoWhat was the old American Dream, if not exactly that?
- withdavidli 10y agoGood grades->good college -> good job -> marry -> buy house -> have kids. All on a middle class salary. In the bay area that's probably about 100k/yr for a household. Impossible these days.
- ZenoArrow 10y agoI think the American Dream was a little less specific than that. AFAIK the American Dream was that if you applied yourself, you could be anything that you wanted to be. You see it with the movie trope of the kid who wants to prove everyone wrong and be the next president of the United States.
- shopkins 10y agoAh, I guess that's part of it. I was thinking of the more general perspective, i.e. "Anyone can make it with a little hard work and determination."
- fucking_tragedy 10y agoI've always interpreted it as earnest hard work and merit would pay off in the end, with the first three examples you listed as making it easier. I saw the American Dream as being inclusive to those without good grades or a college education as well.
- noelwelsh 10y agoCouldn't agree more. I had a few rough years in business, that I only got through due to various forms of good luck (my business partner, my domestic partner, no debts, etc.) Two other points I think are relevant. First, people treat passions are something one is born to. The things I'm interested in now I learned of mostly due to accident. For example, I got into programming languages because I read Philip Greenspun's writing back in the day, which took me to SICP, and from there onto other programming language theory. I studies AI thinking I was interested in genetic algorithms and fuzzy logic, but an inspiring lecturer got me interested in statistical machine learning. These are just lucky accidents. There are many other areas that would be just as deep that I could have landed in. A few chance encounters at the right time and I might have ended up in graphics, or distributed systems, or some other field away from computing. Second, business as a sole trader is hard. It gets much easier when you can share the load and specialise a bit.
- beatpanda 10y agotl;dr "Being your own boss is hard work." It's true that some people are going to have an easier time quitting a full time job to pursue a passion than others. The correct response is for those of us who have that privilege to do our best to recognize that not everyone can do that, and then enable those people for whom that's harder. Discussions of privilege derail when they turn in to "...and so you should feel bad for being happy." No, you should recognize that if it's within your power to help other people be as happy as you are, you have a responsibility to do that.
- xivzgrev 10y agoI dont think thats author was saying. Its just that when we paint the pretty vision, we should be explicit about who is applies for / include disclaimers. Otherwise some people who have obstacles in their reality that you did not have may feel inspired, take a leap and...crash into those obstacles. You cant be responsible for other peoples actions, but to the degree you can be self aware about whom your advice applies to, you should.
- alex82398 10y agoIt is not bullshit. I quit my job, and it worked fairly well, 6 figures in remote job, I even got on stage with Google vice-president. The problem is that you need to give it 100%. Otherwise you are just replacing one job with another. It is not good idea to 'travel the world' while building next startup. Best thing is to lock yourself in cheap basement, work 12 hours day, take regular walks, eat and sleep. What killed my passion was toxic marriage. I filled time I would spend at work, with another task. And my passion was still on side track. And author himself admits, he quit for other problems, following his passion was sidetrack. Anyway just one warning: it takes lot of dedication and self-control. If you are struggling with procrastination etc, dont even think about it! disclaimer: I am drunk
- exolymph 10y ago*author herself also lol at the disclaimer
- batrat 10y agoIn order to win the lottery you have to buy a ticket. Not everybody wins, but that man can make a difference (or not ) in this world. We all have a shot at the BIG prize.
- sparkie 10y agoThe author acknowledges this and isn't arguing about whether the lottery exists, but what the stakes are. For the working class, they stake their livelihood. It means that failing to win the lottery might mean starting a career from scratch, that is, if they enough to still have roof and food.
- xivzgrev 10y ago"The concept is ideal for all, but not realistic for many" Working on your own on something you are passionate about is, in fact, not the ideal for all. Many many people see work as a paycheck. They derive their meaning from activities from outside of work. One could argue they could enjoy work more if they incorporated a passion into it, but then what if they lose that stark line of separation? Some people may actually enjoy a clear line between work (make the money) and fun/meaningful stuff (spend the money on) What if that passion loses its luster once its your work? What if you get most meaning from close relationships, how do you incorporate that into a job? I'm wary of most things that say this is the ideal for everyone. There are universal needs but there are not universal ways to meet those needs.
- blackrose 10y agoWas looking for something insightful, but I guess I haven't heard (and bought into) the same stories as the author. I quit my job half a year ago to do the "entrepreneurial lifestyle", but I'm not going around telling everyone to quit their job and be as ostensibly great and care-free as I am. Of course I'm thankful for my situation, and realize I'm luckier than many Americans, and lucky to live in a prosperous country. But is it really "privilege" to live frugally enough to save up for years, and then quit my job to pursue my passion? Am I not supposed to do that at all? Am I supposed to feel my privilege for having a job? Or computer skills? Or a computer in the first place? Electricity? I don't know where, to the author, the privilege train is supposed to end.
- jxm262 10y agoI'm curious what you're working on for the "entrepreneurial lifestyle". I"m actually thinking of going a similar route to saving up a good few years worth of expenses, and then going solo. I'm trying to decide on contracting/consulting vs build my own product (I've done the latter fairly successfully before). Would you care to share your experiences or perhaps email for a couple questions?
- blackrose 10y agoI'll shoot you an email too, but I'm building a product. I started it 6 months before quitting, and by the time I put in my resignation I had a good amount of users and steady growth that's only continued since. At first I did some consulting to help with expenses, but eventually I dropped that work so I could focus better on the product. But I also reveled a bit too much in the initial freedom after quitting, and took way longer to get the product to the next stage (which I'm now at) where I've got good features my users will pay for. So now I actually just accepted a salaried job again, as I only saved up enough for <1 year's expenses (definitely save up more :) ). Overall I've learned more in these past months about business, product development, software development, managing people and finances than I would've in a lifetime working for someone else -- and that was my real goal. So overall it's been a success, and next time I do this I imagine I'll be much more effective.
- dang 10y agoWe've attempted to reword the baity title to express the spirit of the article. If someone suggests a better (i.e. more accurate and neutral) title, we can change it again.
- stoichiometry 10y agoHow about: Quitting your job to pursue your passion is horse apples
- dang 10y agoProfanity isn't the problem.
- justinhj 10y agoThe article seems to imply there is a right and wrong answer to what is a very personal question that depends on your exact circumstances.
- zxcvvcxz 10y agoI don't understand the extremist views of blog posts like this. Do you really need to think in such simplistic "truisms" and catch phrases? > Quitting your job to pursue your passion is bullshit. Not at all true. I know plenty of working class people who have saved money at their day jobs, researched a small business opportunity, and chosen to pursue it. A decent portion of them are succeeding beyond their wildest expectations. All are glad to have had the experience and put their money where their mouth (dream) is. You only live once after all. Not starting a business you wanted to is not a stone you want to leave unturned, for a lot of people. But there's some key points here. They saved money. They planned. They came up with contingencies. > This messaging is only beneficial for privileged people and very dangerous for working class people. Right, throw away that ambition and continue to be my employee until the end of time. This is the kind of thing I would write as a modern day "Lord of the Manor". Once again, be intelligent. Have an idea of your worth. Use the internet to do research, learn about small businesses, and financial planning. Of course there's a big difference between a working class person and the kid who grew up in the valley with parents working at GoogleSoftBook who gets shuttled into Stanford and isn't in a rush to pay loans or move out after graduation, preferring instead to make mobile apps with his frat. That doesn't seem to be what's being discussed though. It's just some vague attack at those who go out on their own. I'm surprised this sort of post is getting upvoted on HN. Are we a forum of spectators envious at those who chose to try that which we did not? As a final thought, people complaining about other people's privilege would be doing themselves a much bigger favor if they got off their ass and worked to maximize their own potential. Don't try to bring me down, work on bringing yourself up. I'd be happy to help.
- soham 10y agoAmen. I'm one of those. I understand the intent of this article. It's however unfortunate that the author has not come across enough success stories. Here is mine, which is arguably very small, but came out of exactly the same situation of an employee branching out: * I saved, I was clear about not only what I like to do, but also what I'm good at. * I couldn't get to it in my 20s, but I did get to it in my 30s. * Yes, there was privilege, but not any more than so many of my friends and acquaintances have. I didn't come from money either. * Yes, there was luck, but not any more than what I'd have needed to survive as an employee. * Yes, there was agony of survival, still is, will continue to be, and only increase. But I expected that going in, and I carefully created a support system for it, which comes in handy in those tough times. * Yes, there were unexpected events, including existential threats, but not any more than what I'd have had while working as an employee. * It has only been a year and a half, and I'm in no position to sermonize, lecture and draw conclusions. But I know that I'm having a blast. I am answerable to nobody but reason, I have flexibility with my time like I never had, and I have immense satisfaction of being the first one to introduce a new useful thing to this planet and make an impact in lives of several of my customers. But most importantly, it has afforded me life lessons which I'd have never had otherwise and I can accelerate my kids into. Yes, I'm making more than I'd have made in my job, but who is even looking at that? [For the curious, I run this: http://InterviewKickstart.com http://InterviewKickstart.com]
- Mendenhall 10y agoThis article comes off very bitter to me, its like she failed so she is angry. "But what bothers me most is how we prop up the entrepreneurial class to be inherently brave and courageous." I think she projects how she felt about entrepreneurs onto everyone else. I never thought of them as inherently brave, there are many kinds. One small other thought is if it wasnt for entrepreneurs everyone else would have no one to work for. I am an entrepreneur not because of any particular bravery, I just like knowing there is no one to blame but me if I fail.
- golemotron 10y agoThe concept of privilege is passive-aggressive shaming. And that's remarkable because shaming is passive-aggressive already.
- dang 10y agoThis account seems to be using HN exclusively for political/ideological purposes. Please don't do that. It's not what this site is for.
- Throwaway585250 10y agoIt would be a real shame if the next Larry Page or Bill Gates decided to live in a barrel instead of founding a company because of this sentiment. A happy home and middle-class parents aren't a bad thing. In fact, they're so good that everyone should have them. You should apply your advantages strategically in order to affect change[0] in the world, and while doing so may not be courageous, squandering the effort spent on raising you is a waste of time and resources that helps nobody. I live with a gardener who makes just above minimum wage[1] who is planning to start his own business. For him not to do so would be a gigantic waste of his skills, as he's far and away the most competent employee of his current boss. He's courageous because he's going to take a carefully managed risk in order to fully use his skills, even though his life is reasonably comfortable as is, and by doing so will fractionally lower the cost of living for all the residents of the apartment blocks he plans to service[2]. When people say "pursue your passion", what they really mean is "you are too good for your current job, and staying there is a waste of your good fortune". It's a goad to prod the elite into working and climbing long after they've passed the point where they can live for the rest of their lives on savings and investments, and to push the comfy middle class to go through the extremely uncomfortable process of starting a business. Having the audacity and wealth to single-handedly eradicate polio is also a privilege, but Gates is currently trying to do it, because society taught him that he'd be a good person if he did good things. Turning around and denouncing entrepreneurs as privileged will make for fewer entrepreneurs, even if it's true, in the same way as calling Gates a privileged do-gooder sufficiently loudly might stop his charitable work in Africa. [0] hopefully positive change, and hopefully change that uplifts others [1] minimum wage here is quite a bit higher than in the US [2] by raising supply; I'm not an economist, correct me if I'm wrong here
- keerthiko 10y agoDespite the headline, I don't think the article is deriding quitting your job for your passion. It is primarily about pointing out that it is from a place of privilege usually that one takes the "leaps of faith" that are culturally revered and respected, and is trying to recognize that. I (and I would imagine the author) am all for people quitting their jobs for passion, and being able to do so thanks to their privilege. But I do think it's very important for them to recognize those privileges, not wax too poetic about the bravery and challenges involved (be strong and hustle non-stop) as if people in other jobs don't have to do that, and not tout the act as something anyone and everyone can/should do to lead a "fulfilling life."
- mkalygin 10y agoSeems like this article messes up definitions of employment, freelance and entrepreneurship. Being entrepreneur is not about getting money from the sky, it's tough. It's about getting higher risks for greater benefits. But you need to pay for it: plan your budget, time and efforts, be accountable and disciplined, try to balance your risks and invest your time/money wisely. This article is more about "employment is better than freelance". Seems like the author had no passion neither as a full-time employee, nor as a freelancer. It seems like the author don't know what passion really means or simply has no priority for it in her life. That's ok unless you say that entrepreneurship is "bullshit" for working class. Sounds like a very biased statement. Everyone has their own way. There is nothing wrong with people who have passion to something different than full-time employment.
- known 10y agoTo promote Entrepreneurs/Startups 1. Impose tax on corporate revenues, not profits 2. Regulate market capitalization of corporations