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do people developing such spyware ever read hn? May be time to bring a ethics promise to software development!

by whyagaindavid 10y ago

MasterScrat 10y ago
Don't most schools have a code of moral conduct to sign before graduation?
- pascalmemories 10y ago
  That's the beauty of paper - it allows anything to be put on it but does absolutely nothing to actually make you do whatever you promised. Those promises are, quite literally, not worth the paper they are written on. If a Government (or TLA or whoever in power) wants some Evil Thing, a piece of paper from somewhere promising not to do Evil Things will not be a hindrance to either asking [or, depending on where, compelling] you to take part. If you have the option to decline, they will keep asking people (and increasing the financial reward) until someone agrees.
- esbranson 10y ago
  Why would that matter?
- krapp 10y ago
  Wouldn't many programmers object to being coerced into signing a "code of moral conduct" to begin with?
  - chillingeffect 10y ago
    Without a broader background, programmers don't all understand the implications of their actions... Doctors are generally quite proud to be take part in the Hippocratic oath which connects their actions to something much larger thsn themselves
forgottenpass 10y ago
do people developing such spyware ever read hn? May be time to bring a ethics promise to software development! I think the field of software, writ large, is already too morally bankrupt for any system of ethics to take hold. People have a hard time seeing the evil in their products, and their possible unintended uses. Or they do, and don't think it's bad enough to forgo getting paid for it. Even if you don't agree with the reasons, it's not hard to imagine what developers at Fin Fisher or Hacking Team told themselves to sleep well at night. Easy example: they might think they're doing a moral positive by focusing on the use cases of western governments in taking down organized crime. So forget about the Hacking Teams of the world. Look closer to home. We're wrestling control over computing systems further and further out of the end user's grasp, monitoring them more pervasively, and processing that data like never before. We're building digital toys to fill people's leisure time up with digital junk food in hopes of monetizing them. And if the dollars don't come quick enough, we turn to "gamification" (read: psychological manipulation). Sure, there is a difference of scale. But it's not a difference in kind. We may think it should be legal to insult the Emirate rulers. But that doesn't matter. The point is, they thought they were justified. Just like we think we're justified. All the way down to highlighting false choices so we can tell ourselves the victims did it to themselves.
venomsnake 10y ago
Since almost any fun project is unethical, I can't see that getting a lot of traction.
- voltagex_ 10y ago
  Examples?
voltagex_ 10y ago
Would the Internet exist if software developers had something akin to First, do no harm? It was a Defense project after all.

do people developing such spyware ever read hn? May be time to bring a ethics promise to software development!

MasterScrat 10y ago

Don't most schools have a code of moral conduct to sign before graduation?

pascalmemories 10y ago
That's the beauty of paper - it allows anything to be put on it but does absolutely nothing to actually make you do whatever you promised. Those promises are, quite literally, not worth the paper they are written on. If a Government (or TLA or whoever in power) wants some Evil Thing, a piece of paper from somewhere promising not to do Evil Things will not be a hindrance to either asking [or, depending on where, compelling] you to take part. If you have the option to decline, they will keep asking people (and increasing the financial reward) until someone agrees.
esbranson 10y ago
Why would that matter?
krapp 10y ago
Wouldn't many programmers object to being coerced into signing a "code of moral conduct" to begin with?
- chillingeffect 10y ago
  Without a broader background, programmers don't all understand the implications of their actions... Doctors are generally quite proud to be take part in the Hippocratic oath which connects their actions to something much larger thsn themselves

forgottenpass 10y ago

do people developing such spyware ever read hn? May be time to bring a ethics promise to software development! I think the field of software, writ large, is already too morally bankrupt for any system of ethics to take hold. People have a hard time seeing the evil in their products, and their possible unintended uses. Or they do, and don't think it's bad enough to forgo getting paid for it. Even if you don't agree with the reasons, it's not hard to imagine what developers at Fin Fisher or Hacking Team told themselves to sleep well at night. Easy example: they might think they're doing a moral positive by focusing on the use cases of western governments in taking down organized crime. So forget about the Hacking Teams of the world. Look closer to home. We're wrestling control over computing systems further and further out of the end user's grasp, monitoring them more pervasively, and processing that data like never before. We're building digital toys to fill people's leisure time up with digital junk food in hopes of monetizing them. And if the dollars don't come quick enough, we turn to "gamification" (read: psychological manipulation). Sure, there is a difference of scale. But it's not a difference in kind. We may think it should be legal to insult the Emirate rulers. But that doesn't matter. The point is, they thought they were justified. Just like we think we're justified. All the way down to highlighting false choices so we can tell ourselves the victims did it to themselves.

venomsnake 10y ago

Since almost any fun project is unethical, I can't see that getting a lot of traction.

voltagex_ 10y ago
Examples?

voltagex_ 10y ago

Would the Internet exist if software developers had something akin to First, do no harm? It was a Defense project after all.