5 ms·

The middle class STARTS at 150K?

by nharada 10y ago

throwaway_exer 10y ago
A tear-down starts at $2 million in PA, so you would need a combined family income of about $350,000 to qualify for a mortgage - just to tear it down. Factoid: there's a house in downtown PA with a yard the size of a small farm. Of course, it was bought when the surrounding area was farmland.
Harimwakairi 10y ago
In Silicon Valley, yes.
mifreewil 10y ago
Yeah, I think this is a bit exaggerated. Housing is a lot more expensive in Palo Alto/Silicon Valley than the rest of the US - but not that much.
- jmspring 10y ago
  Palo Alto/Mountain View is double digit percentage higher than places an hour or two out -- assuming non-commute hours. But, Santa Cruz to Marin, not that wildly different.
  - mifreewil 10y ago
    To say the middle class starts at 150k, you'd have to classify lots of professionals working in/around Palo Alto as lower class - including engineers.
- mifreewil 10y ago
  Although, the article mentions "family" making 150k-250k. So this implies two incomes, so each person making 75k-125k, which seems like a more accurate reflection of middle class in SV.
- davidjnelson 10y ago
  Single family homes with 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1,500 sq ft, 2000 sq ft yard, built after 1980, recently sold prices on zillow: Palo Alto: Averages roughly $4,000,000. http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Palo-Alto-CA/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/26374_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/37.484257,-121.973992,37.279106,-122.297059_rect/11_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Palo-Alto-CA/fsba,fsbo_... Austin, Texas: Averages roughly $400,000 (10x less) http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Austin-TX/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/10221_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/30.737704,-97.13974,29.846004,-98.432007_rect/9_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Austin-TX/fsba,fsbo_lt/... Orlando, Florida: Averages roughly $400,000 (10x less) http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Orlando-FL/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/13121_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/28.707753,-80.91362,28.253888,-81.559754_rect/10_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Orlando-FL/fsba,fsbo_lt... Chicago, Illinois: Averages roughly $800,000 (5x less) http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Chicago-IL/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/17426_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/42.026088,-87.4086,41.641361,-88.054734_rect/10_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Chicago-IL/fsba,fsbo_lt... Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: Averages roughly $400,000 (10x less) http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Philadelphia-PA/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/13271_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/40.200117,-74.794922,39.804579,-75.441056_rect/10_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Philadelphia-PA/fsba,fs... Seattle, Washington: Averages roughly $1,000,000 (4x less) http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Seattle-WA/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/16037_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/47.787094,-122.021714,47.439002,-122.667847_rect/10_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Seattle-WA/fsba,fsbo_lt... Palo Alto is definitely _much_ more expensive.
  - burfog 10y ago
    Even your cheapest examples are expensive. It's about $150,000 ($100,000 to $250,000) in Palm Bay, FL. That's normal peaceful USA, with tech jobs and even kind of near the beach, not some decaying hellhole. So make that a factor of 30, without even looking at bad places.
    - 10y ago
- mbreese 10y ago
  No, it's not exaggerated. Housing prices on the peninsula (PA/MW in particular) are so far outside of the distribution for the rest of the country, it's not even funny. And it's not just the housing that is significantly more expensive. Schools, daycare, anything that involves kids is easily 2x as expensive around Palo Alto. Saying that middle class in PA starts at $250K sounds about right. It is very difficult to have a family in the area for less than that. Source: I recently moved from Mountain View to the Midwest (family of 4). My wife and I have talked a lot about moving back, but we decided that a minimum salary level would likely need to be above $250K for us to even consider it.
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    I wouldn't say it is that far out of the distribution of NYC. It is very far from the middle of Iowa, but there is at least NYC to share the absurd housing price with :)
    - TheCoelacanth 10y ago
      NYC or Manhattan? Manhattan is probably around the same as Palo Alto, but that's only a tiny portion of NYC.
      - brianwawok 10y ago
        Ya I guess that is the bigger difference. NYC you travel less far to find sanity than Palo Alto.
- pmiller2 10y ago
  I could literally rent a 4br/2ba apartment in my hometown in BFE Midwest for about $300/month less than I'm paying for a room in the East Bay.
davidjnelson 10y ago
I think of middle class in silicon valley starting at $250,000 honestly. $150,000 seems low based on the housing costs.

The middle class STARTS at 150K?

by nharada 10y ago

The middle class STARTS at 150K?

A tear-down starts at $2 million in PA, so you would need a combined family income of about $350,000 to qualify for a mortgage - just to tear it down. Factoid: there's a house in downtown PA with a yard the size of a small farm. Of course, it was bought when the surrounding area was farmland.

Harimwakairi 10y ago

In Silicon Valley, yes.

mifreewil 10y ago

Yeah, I think this is a bit exaggerated. Housing is a lot more expensive in Palo Alto/Silicon Valley than the rest of the US - but not that much.

jmspring 10y ago
Palo Alto/Mountain View is double digit percentage higher than places an hour or two out -- assuming non-commute hours. But, Santa Cruz to Marin, not that wildly different.
- mifreewil 10y ago
  To say the middle class starts at 150k, you'd have to classify lots of professionals working in/around Palo Alto as lower class - including engineers.
mifreewil 10y ago
Although, the article mentions "family" making 150k-250k. So this implies two incomes, so each person making 75k-125k, which seems like a more accurate reflection of middle class in SV.
davidjnelson 10y ago
Single family homes with 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1,500 sq ft, 2000 sq ft yard, built after 1980, recently sold prices on zillow: Palo Alto: Averages roughly $4,000,000. http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Palo-Alto-CA/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/26374_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/37.484257,-121.973992,37.279106,-122.297059_rect/11_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Palo-Alto-CA/fsba,fsbo_... Austin, Texas: Averages roughly $400,000 (10x less) http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Austin-TX/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/10221_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/30.737704,-97.13974,29.846004,-98.432007_rect/9_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Austin-TX/fsba,fsbo_lt/... Orlando, Florida: Averages roughly $400,000 (10x less) http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Orlando-FL/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/13121_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/28.707753,-80.91362,28.253888,-81.559754_rect/10_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Orlando-FL/fsba,fsbo_lt... Chicago, Illinois: Averages roughly $800,000 (5x less) http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Chicago-IL/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/17426_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/42.026088,-87.4086,41.641361,-88.054734_rect/10_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Chicago-IL/fsba,fsbo_lt... Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: Averages roughly $400,000 (10x less) http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Philadelphia-PA/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/13271_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/40.200117,-74.794922,39.804579,-75.441056_rect/10_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Philadelphia-PA/fsba,fs... Seattle, Washington: Averages roughly $1,000,000 (4x less) http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Seattle-WA/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/16037_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/any_days/1500-_size/2000-_lot/1980-_built/47.787094,-122.021714,47.439002,-122.667847_rect/10_zm/0_mmm/1_rs/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Seattle-WA/fsba,fsbo_lt... Palo Alto is definitely _much_ more expensive.
- burfog 10y ago
  Even your cheapest examples are expensive. It's about $150,000 ($100,000 to $250,000) in Palm Bay, FL. That's normal peaceful USA, with tech jobs and even kind of near the beach, not some decaying hellhole. So make that a factor of 30, without even looking at bad places.
  - 10y ago
mbreese 10y ago
No, it's not exaggerated. Housing prices on the peninsula (PA/MW in particular) are so far outside of the distribution for the rest of the country, it's not even funny. And it's not just the housing that is significantly more expensive. Schools, daycare, anything that involves kids is easily 2x as expensive around Palo Alto. Saying that middle class in PA starts at $250K sounds about right. It is very difficult to have a family in the area for less than that. Source: I recently moved from Mountain View to the Midwest (family of 4). My wife and I have talked a lot about moving back, but we decided that a minimum salary level would likely need to be above $250K for us to even consider it.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  I wouldn't say it is that far out of the distribution of NYC. It is very far from the middle of Iowa, but there is at least NYC to share the absurd housing price with :)
  - TheCoelacanth 10y ago
    NYC or Manhattan? Manhattan is probably around the same as Palo Alto, but that's only a tiny portion of NYC.
    - brianwawok 10y ago
      Ya I guess that is the bigger difference. NYC you travel less far to find sanity than Palo Alto.
pmiller2 10y ago
I could literally rent a 4br/2ba apartment in my hometown in BFE Midwest for about $300/month less than I'm paying for a room in the East Bay.

davidjnelson 10y ago

I think of middle class in silicon valley starting at $250,000 honestly. $150,000 seems low based on the housing costs.