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In my opinion, World War II started on September 18, 1931, when Japan invaded Manchuria, because 1) the Chinese and Japanese didn't stop fighting until 1945, an
by ianremsen 10y ago
In my opinion, World War II started on September 18, 1931, when Japan invaded Manchuria, because 1) the Chinese and Japanese didn't stop fighting until 1945, and 2) it had much the same spirit as the following conflicts. Admittedly, this subjective timing stuff is awful fuzzy.
- ptaipale 10y agoI agree with this idea; the view that invasion of Poland was start of this global war is rather Euro-centric. However, as you said it is fuzzy: the hostilities were still somewhat limited even after the invasion in Manchuria; but total war broke out in July 1937 after the Marco Polo Bridge incident.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- vacri 10y agoJapan's invasion of Manchuria triggered which web of military alliances to fight against which web of military alliances?
- ptaipale 10y agoInvasion of Manchuria was 1931; 1937 was invasion of mainland China until Zhejiang and Hubei. In consequences, there was the alliance of Germany and China fighting against the Soviet attack on Xinjiang, for instance. It directly contributed to sanctions such as American embargo of Japanese imports, and things like Export Control Act of 1940 and then the Tripartite Pact. (BTW, thanks for asking; this made me read more about history in the area - I had no idea, for instance, that Soviet artillery and airplanes had attacked Chinese Muslim nationalist (KMT) troops with mustard gas in 1934 in the Soviet invasion of Xinjiang, nor that there were still White Russian troops that operated on same side with NKVD and GPU troops. What a murky business.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Xinjiang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Xinjiang
- ul5255 10y agoKMT was the ruling party Kuomintang: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuomintang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuomintang nothing to do with muslims
- ptaipale 10y agoThere are things like Muslim Chinese nationalists. Kuomintang had, among others, Muslim generals/warlords and troops, in this case I was referring to Ma Hushan's Hui (Muslim) troops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_Hushan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_Hushan Compare to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_rebellion_in_Xinjiang_(1937) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_rebellion_in_Xinjiang_...
- rmah 10y agoThat muslims were members of the KMT and served in the KMT army means nothing. The KMT was not a muslim organization. It had no religious affiliations at all. It was a chinese nationalist political party.
- ptaipale 10y agoI don't think I said KMT was a muslim organisation. It was a nationalist organisation, or a warlord organization - the allegiance of generals to the party was often quite nominal. However, it bears some relevance to the matter that KMT-affiliated troops that fought against Soviet invasion in a predominantly Muslim-populated area were Muslims. I don't see here any particular parallels towards Islamic or Islamist movements today.
- vacri 10y agoEmbargos aren't war, otherwise the West is at war with Russia right now due to it's annexation of Crimea and activities in the Ukraine. And does it really count as Germany at war with the Soviets if there were no German troops involved? Similarly, if you're counting political events that foment war as being part of that war, then WWII started at least as far back as 1919, when Ferdinand Foch stated that the WWI peace treaty "wasn't a peace, but an armstice for 20 years". The thing is that Japan's military adventurism in China was a regional affair, conducted between neighbours, whereas Germany attacking Poland brought in countries from all inhabited continents except South America.