5 ms·

I have no idea. I don't fit the mold - doing well, grew up poorer than many, so my success wasn't dictated by my parents, but that doesn't mean GP's post is wro

I have no idea. I don't fit the mold - doing well, grew up poorer than many, so my success wasn't dictated by my parents, but that doesn't mean GP's post is wrong at all. I upvoted it. Edit: while I'm sure I'm smart (who isn't sure the are?), luck has a lot to do with any success I've had.

WalterBright 10y ago
> luck has a lot to do with any success I've had. Does anyone expect that by sitting around doing nothing they'll get lucky and become successful? Do one's choices mean nothing?
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  "Fortune favors the bold."
  - drauh 10y ago
    "But the world remembers only bold successes, aka history is written by the victors." --me
  - TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
    Fortune favours the fortunate - and sends out journalists to interview some of them.
  - DrScump 10y ago
    Only the successful bold are remembered by history.
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    More like "misfortune filters the bold." As in "There are bold bikers, there are old bikers, but there are no old, bold bikers."
- peteretep 10y ago
  I'm more successful than most people I know. I put this down mostly to phenotype, education, and and general social background. None of this is anything to feel proud about, I didn't choose any of this. I know (and admire) many many less successful people who work a lot harder than me, who display most of the traits that are meant to make people successful, but the halo effect, being white and male, getting easily bored, and being brought up in an environment where suggesting I could be the Prime Minister one day was met not with derision but with book suggestions were surely the keys to my success, and also the basis for all my choices. The key belief - in my experience - between the Left and the Right is that the Right doesn't believe in luck, good or bad.
  - marcoperaza 10y ago
    There's plenty of hardworking people who never get lucky and hit jackpot, but who nonetheless build happy fulfilled lives and can give their children many opportunities.
  - lgieron 10y ago
    > getting easily bored Getting easily bored was helpful?
    - SapphireSun 10y ago
      It's a useful parameter that if set right will enhance new exploration over retreading territory. If set too high, you spend too much time exploring shallowly, and if set too low, you get stuck in a rut.
    - peteretep 10y ago
      Many times I read about entrepreneurs they've made changes in their life because they're filled with a deep desire to blah blah blah. I quit my first job to work for myself because I bored out of my wits and couldn't face going in to work. Many of the big positive changes in my life have happened because I was too bored or lazy to cope with the status quo.
- yannyu 10y ago
  I don't think most people on HN think "luck" happens by pure chance. "Luck" is most often used to describe why 5% of startups make it, and why the other 95% fail despite the same level of intelligence and effort of its team. Another hackneyed/common phrase is "luck is where preparation meets opportunity". In the scope of entrepreneurial efforts, there's sufficient amounts of chaos that one has to attribute success to some amount of chance or luck, in addition to the effort required in running/starting a business.
  - WalterBright 10y ago
    The details of success are pretty much luck. But the choices one makes to recognize opportunity when it flows your way, and being prepared to take advantage of that opportunity, that is not luck. I.e. if you're not out there swinging, you are never ever going to hit the ball.
    - gabemart 10y ago
      My mental conception of this looks like a bell curve - most successful entities require a good amount of (hard, smart, strategic) work and a good amount of (pure, random, chaotic) luck. A very few succeed with a vast amount of hard work and only a small amount of luck, and equally few succeed with a tiny amount of hard work and vast amounts of luck.
- LionessLover 10y ago
  The "luck" argument isn't about comparing an idle slob with a hard-working person. It's about different outcomes for equally hard-working people due to luck - such as the luck of birth. Which is not just about parents, but about ones entire environment. How many little Einsteins where born in Ghana and nobody ever noticed?
  - WalterBright 10y ago
    It is NOT about how hard you work. It is about how smart you work - i.e. your choices on what to work on. Working hard on non-productive things is not going to get one anywhere. Everybody has choices on what to work on. Working hard waiting tables is not going to help create a hit album - working hard on guitar skills might. To be successful, you have to have a plan that makes sense, then work that plan, not something else.
    - ktRolster 10y ago
      "Don't tell me how hard you work. Tell me how much you get done."
- Marazan 10y ago
  If hard work made ou successful old women in 3rd world countries would be billionaires.
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    Hard work is one of several factors. Also not being a billionaire!= not being successful.
- solipsism 10y ago
  Does anyone expect that by sitting around doing nothing they'll get lucky and become successful? Do one's choices mean nothing? Talk about a non sequitur. Grandparent said, essentially, that luck is necessary for success. You seem to be arguing against a strawman who you imagine claims that luck is sufficient for success. You have accomplished much, Walter, and you deserve to feel proud. You also should feel lucky, however.
  - WalterBright 10y ago
    I've watched enough other people throw away opportunities, and seen enough opportunities I've thrown away to realize that most everyone gets lucky opportunities. Preparing for them, recognizing them, and taking advantage of them, is another matter entirely. I know a number of successes and failures. The successes tend to be people who take responsibility for their lot in life, the bad as well as the good. The failures tend to be people who blame others or bad luck for their lot. The empowering thing about taking responsibility is then you can do something about it.
  - CuriouslyC 10y ago
    I would say luck is necessary for fame and fortune, but not necessarily for success. Take for example someone who is an incredibly gifted musician, artist or writer. If that person doesn't put any work into self promotion they won't be rich or famous, but I would argue they would still be extremely successful. In fact, many of the people we today consider the greatest artists in history toiled in relative obscurity during their lifetimes.
- Joof 10y ago
  No. Working hard significantly increases your chances of getting lucky.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  That's not what the comment you were replying to says or even suggests. You are twisting words to the extreme and I am not even sure why.

WalterBright 10y ago

> luck has a lot to do with any success I've had. Does anyone expect that by sitting around doing nothing they'll get lucky and become successful? Do one's choices mean nothing?

marcoperaza 10y ago
"Fortune favors the bold."
- drauh 10y ago
  "But the world remembers only bold successes, aka history is written by the victors." --me
- TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
  Fortune favours the fortunate - and sends out journalists to interview some of them.
- DrScump 10y ago
  Only the successful bold are remembered by history.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  More like "misfortune filters the bold." As in "There are bold bikers, there are old bikers, but there are no old, bold bikers."
peteretep 10y ago
I'm more successful than most people I know. I put this down mostly to phenotype, education, and and general social background. None of this is anything to feel proud about, I didn't choose any of this. I know (and admire) many many less successful people who work a lot harder than me, who display most of the traits that are meant to make people successful, but the halo effect, being white and male, getting easily bored, and being brought up in an environment where suggesting I could be the Prime Minister one day was met not with derision but with book suggestions were surely the keys to my success, and also the basis for all my choices. The key belief - in my experience - between the Left and the Right is that the Right doesn't believe in luck, good or bad.
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  There's plenty of hardworking people who never get lucky and hit jackpot, but who nonetheless build happy fulfilled lives and can give their children many opportunities.
- lgieron 10y ago
  > getting easily bored Getting easily bored was helpful?
  - SapphireSun 10y ago
    It's a useful parameter that if set right will enhance new exploration over retreading territory. If set too high, you spend too much time exploring shallowly, and if set too low, you get stuck in a rut.
  - peteretep 10y ago
    Many times I read about entrepreneurs they've made changes in their life because they're filled with a deep desire to blah blah blah. I quit my first job to work for myself because I bored out of my wits and couldn't face going in to work. Many of the big positive changes in my life have happened because I was too bored or lazy to cope with the status quo.
yannyu 10y ago
I don't think most people on HN think "luck" happens by pure chance. "Luck" is most often used to describe why 5% of startups make it, and why the other 95% fail despite the same level of intelligence and effort of its team. Another hackneyed/common phrase is "luck is where preparation meets opportunity". In the scope of entrepreneurial efforts, there's sufficient amounts of chaos that one has to attribute success to some amount of chance or luck, in addition to the effort required in running/starting a business.
- WalterBright 10y ago
  The details of success are pretty much luck. But the choices one makes to recognize opportunity when it flows your way, and being prepared to take advantage of that opportunity, that is not luck. I.e. if you're not out there swinging, you are never ever going to hit the ball.
  - gabemart 10y ago
    My mental conception of this looks like a bell curve - most successful entities require a good amount of (hard, smart, strategic) work and a good amount of (pure, random, chaotic) luck. A very few succeed with a vast amount of hard work and only a small amount of luck, and equally few succeed with a tiny amount of hard work and vast amounts of luck.
LionessLover 10y ago
The "luck" argument isn't about comparing an idle slob with a hard-working person. It's about different outcomes for equally hard-working people due to luck - such as the luck of birth. Which is not just about parents, but about ones entire environment. How many little Einsteins where born in Ghana and nobody ever noticed?
- WalterBright 10y ago
  It is NOT about how hard you work. It is about how smart you work - i.e. your choices on what to work on. Working hard on non-productive things is not going to get one anywhere. Everybody has choices on what to work on. Working hard waiting tables is not going to help create a hit album - working hard on guitar skills might. To be successful, you have to have a plan that makes sense, then work that plan, not something else.
  - ktRolster 10y ago
    "Don't tell me how hard you work. Tell me how much you get done."
Marazan 10y ago
If hard work made ou successful old women in 3rd world countries would be billionaires.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Hard work is one of several factors. Also not being a billionaire!= not being successful.
solipsism 10y ago
Does anyone expect that by sitting around doing nothing they'll get lucky and become successful? Do one's choices mean nothing? Talk about a non sequitur. Grandparent said, essentially, that luck is necessary for success. You seem to be arguing against a strawman who you imagine claims that luck is sufficient for success. You have accomplished much, Walter, and you deserve to feel proud. You also should feel lucky, however.
- WalterBright 10y ago
  I've watched enough other people throw away opportunities, and seen enough opportunities I've thrown away to realize that most everyone gets lucky opportunities. Preparing for them, recognizing them, and taking advantage of them, is another matter entirely. I know a number of successes and failures. The successes tend to be people who take responsibility for their lot in life, the bad as well as the good. The failures tend to be people who blame others or bad luck for their lot. The empowering thing about taking responsibility is then you can do something about it.
- CuriouslyC 10y ago
  I would say luck is necessary for fame and fortune, but not necessarily for success. Take for example someone who is an incredibly gifted musician, artist or writer. If that person doesn't put any work into self promotion they won't be rich or famous, but I would argue they would still be extremely successful. In fact, many of the people we today consider the greatest artists in history toiled in relative obscurity during their lifetimes.
Joof 10y ago
No. Working hard significantly increases your chances of getting lucky.
nommm-nommm 10y ago
That's not what the comment you were replying to says or even suggests. You are twisting words to the extreme and I am not even sure why.