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"It's not so much about the death of object oriented programming, but asking the question: 'How can we prevent it from dying?'" don't. Don't prevent it from dy

"It's not so much about the death of object oriented programming, but asking the question: 'How can we prevent it from dying?'" don't. Don't prevent it from dying. Just let this academic bullshit go away. "Why won't you just die (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvTb1B253fQ)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvTb1B253fQ)"

barrkel 10y ago
The problem with OO is not that it is "academic bullshit". The problem is that assembling a system out of bags of hidden state communicating with messages isn't always a good idea, particularly when they all can have references to one another. If anything, it's a lack of rigour - something that might be considered academic.
- wbillingsley 10y ago
  > The problem is that assembling a system out of bags of hidden state communicating with messages isn't always a good idea Of course, as soon as your system is socio-technical (includes people), you're rather doomed in that direction already ...
- bubuga 10y ago
  > If anything, it's a lack of rigour More specifically, some people do a poor job following basic best practices to reduce and manage complexity, such as encapsulation and the tried and true separation of concerns, and then proceed to pin the result of their own failures on abstract concepts, such as programming paradigms. There's that saying that goes something like "a bad workman blames his tools"... Well, a programmer bitching about basic programming paradigms is just that.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    Vague best practises, coupled with "if it works, the method works. If not, you must have failed to do it right". It's easy to talk about the notional "bad programmer", and scapegoat that, but why shouldn't the methodology take a hit? I find one of the differences between a novice and an experienced developer is not adherence to "best practise", but knowing which ones are good, and which ones are bullshit (or nuanced, i.e. might get you in trouble). Also, "tried and true" is problematic, there are lots of biases and confounding factors. I would say a lot of OOP project may succeed because there is a lot of investment in OOP, diverging from this automatically puts you in new territory.

barrkel 10y ago

The problem with OO is not that it is "academic bullshit". The problem is that assembling a system out of bags of hidden state communicating with messages isn't always a good idea, particularly when they all can have references to one another. If anything, it's a lack of rigour - something that might be considered academic.

wbillingsley 10y ago
> The problem is that assembling a system out of bags of hidden state communicating with messages isn't always a good idea Of course, as soon as your system is socio-technical (includes people), you're rather doomed in that direction already ...
bubuga 10y ago
> If anything, it's a lack of rigour More specifically, some people do a poor job following basic best practices to reduce and manage complexity, such as encapsulation and the tried and true separation of concerns, and then proceed to pin the result of their own failures on abstract concepts, such as programming paradigms. There's that saying that goes something like "a bad workman blames his tools"... Well, a programmer bitching about basic programming paradigms is just that.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  Vague best practises, coupled with "if it works, the method works. If not, you must have failed to do it right". It's easy to talk about the notional "bad programmer", and scapegoat that, but why shouldn't the methodology take a hit? I find one of the differences between a novice and an experienced developer is not adherence to "best practise", but knowing which ones are good, and which ones are bullshit (or nuanced, i.e. might get you in trouble). Also, "tried and true" is problematic, there are lots of biases and confounding factors. I would say a lot of OOP project may succeed because there is a lot of investment in OOP, diverging from this automatically puts you in new territory.