5 ms·

Besides this "regular" use-case there was recently a case when some former adult performer was doxxed using face recognition: http://fusion.net/story/295539/nte

by rmoriz 10y ago

Besides this "regular" use-case there was recently a case when some former adult performer was doxxed using face recognition: http://fusion.net/story/295539/ntechlab-findface-facial-recognition-accuracy-doxing/ http://fusion.net/story/295539/ntechlab-findface-facial-reco... Now, most of you probably don't care enough, only some are doing adult stuff. But let's imagine such a complete image/id database comes into hands of a bad regime. Most countries already collect and save biometric photos not even for general passport and driver's license documents but also for health insurance issues (like in Germany). Do you trust the health insurance company to store the photos in a way, that no employee nor external attacker is able to "collect" them? CCTV cameras in public and private places are all over the country, placed in public transportation but also in places like gas stations, restaurants, even in the entries of restroom facilities and of course all over in airports. If you connect all those image sources, which is not a technical problem anymore, you can easily track people, like shown in the fictional "person of interest" tv-series. You can turn of or throw away your mobile phone/SIM card. But you can't change your face.

osense 10y ago
> you can't change your face. You can obstruct it enough to confuse OpenCV: https://cvdazzle.com/ https://cvdazzle.com/ I wonder if this is the future of fashion?
- beagle3 10y ago
  It only confuses viola jones style haar detectors. You'd need different makeup for every detector.
  - gravypod 10y ago
    Not to mention that is only for facial recognition. If you want to look at a much better way of tracking people check out CreapyDOL [1]. It works by looking only at wifi data. As he says it "Stalking an entire city on the cheap." Not only this, but if you want to stay in the CV realm you will also need to switch up: * Your stride * Your height * Width of shoulders * How far or if you sway your arms while walking All of those could be used to track an individual. It's not an absolute game, it's a numbers and percentage game. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvxD7p4Suw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvxD7p4Suw
    - icebraining 10y ago
      So, not even the scrambler suit from A Scanner Darkly would work? That's depressing.
- drdaeman 10y ago
  In some (quite a lot of!) jurisdictions there are already laws that prohibit concealing ones' face. While the laws are against masks, it won't be a big stretch (esp. for a rogue regime with a plenty of corrupt judges at hand) to apply or extend such laws for this sort of make-up as well. All in the name of public safety, of course.
  - peteretep 10y ago
    Japanese style health masks
    - Namrog84 10y ago
      That'll only delay the inevitable. Hair. Height. Walking patterns. Stride Length. Each added Criteria helps improve the odds. Oh this masked person waked out of building but they know of 28 people identified in building. So even without identifing your face they only need to build Confidence among a very small subset. Even if you go from building to city or country. They could likely narrow it to high confidence especially if they can actively ID the locations of all others with similar characteristics as you.
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  I think the future is just going to be characterized by massive, constant, widespread destruction of video cameras in public.
  - jkaunisv1 10y ago
    And maybe the widespread adoption of burqas for everyone?
    - Aelinsaar 10y ago
      A good thermal camera, or maybe just gait recognition might not make that effective. No, break up the cameras for scrap.
    - jobigoud 10y ago
      No because it will be against the law to cover your face. (Burqas in public space are already against the law in France).
- stordoff 10y ago
  A little off-topic, but the licensing on that page is a mess. Originally: > Strictly no Ad-Trackers. Strictly no Google Analytics. Otherwise attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike Doesn't state which version of the license, and all Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike version prohibit additional restrictions. Currently: > As of April 28, 2016 I have revoke the Creative Commons license for these works because of projects like MegaFace. Despite the fact that the CC license is perpetual and cannot meaningfully be revoked.
wila 10y ago
In quite a few countries upon visiting they take a photo of your face. Some also add finger prints. You cannot obscure that photo as they won't allow you to do so. So yes this can be used against you, actually at th border it is only collected for that purpose, to be able to identify you as a possible suspect. Adding big data in the picture does make it more scary as I don't believe it is completely reliable. If you've been tagged as a possible suspect you might find a nasty surprise upon leaving the country.
- peteretep 10y ago
  As the only purpose? Isn't it a little bit more likely that they want to check the same person is using the same passport?
  - occamrazor 10y ago
    The passport already contains a photo to ensure that only the legitimate owner uses it.
  - wila 10y ago
    Well, i don't believe they take the picture for your benefit. Actually also seen that a picture is also taken on exit. So yes there might be more reasons like making sure the biometrics match with what is stored in the rfid chip on the passport. But you can bet that the data is stored and will be mined when needed.
    - hartpuff 10y ago
      Heathrow and maybe other UK airports, but not all, whether you're entering or exiting, will take (two) photos, AIUI, in order to verify the correct person is boarding the aircraft. Don't worry, they only keep your data for "as long as is necessary". http://www.heathrow.com/departures/security-and-baggage/flying-within-the-uk-and-ireland http://www.heathrow.com/departures/security-and-baggage/flyi...
    - peteretep 10y ago
      > Well, i don't believe they take the picture for your > benefit Why would anyone believe that?
thr32989 10y ago
This technology could be also used for "good". For example it takes lot of time to manually identify Trump supporters and email their employers. Now it can be automated.
venomsnake 10y ago
You can bribe someone to put fake data in the database next to your name.
- rmoriz 10y ago
  This may look like an option, but once technology has a low failure rate, everything that doesn't match or that does seem unusual will trigger an alarm. Just watch the airport security checks after 9/11 when entering the US: Either you provide a biometric passport accept x-ray radiation or you will be personally annoyed… for your own safety, of course. I believe this is not because of any bad intention, however it trains people to accept such strict rules and when it works there, why not enforce it in other parts of our civil life? For example after some madman shot at a german court house a couple of years ago, they started mandatory checks on every single court house as well. Another case from Germany: We have started to collect car plates from trucks on the Autobahn because of a new electronic toll system (only to catch trucks that don't have the onboard unit activated, no regular use case for visual checks). Of course those car plate recognition software by design is also able to save car plates… of course everything will be deleted… really? It might be true for the moment, but in the future?
  - rhizome 10y ago
    It's going to be a long, long time before facial recognition has a low failure rate. It's hard enough with speech recognition.
    - rmoriz 10y ago
      Did you read the opening posting on VK.com? I guess it only takes 10-15 years. And in some situations, e.g. entrace checks, public transport etc. you've even right now a high chance to obtain great facial images because you (as in state, authority) are able to control the environment.
      - rhizome 10y ago
        From the article, they only get 90% accuracy in controlled conditions, and much, much worse when comparing images taken in the wild. In voice recognition, perhaps a smaller problem space, 90% accuracy means everything gets proofread by a human. "10-15 years" is not an estimate, it's a carrot on a stick. I can imagine that at some point, some level of accuracy will be deemed "accurate," after which we'll still see mistakes. That will be too bad in the eventuality that this technology is used to help justify a killing.
gcr 10y ago
Fingerprints also have this issue. You only get ten of them that should last your entire life. With cooperation, we can build 'revocable biometrics' that mix faces and fingerprints with a password or PIN. To revoke your biometric, simply forget your PIN. The only thing you can do with these models is verify your claimed identity. They can't be used for search. So they're great for users, but not so great for evil establishments that want to search for terrorists or whatever in large biometrics databases.
- Natanael_L 10y ago
  That's basically a hardware token with fingerprint readers. Smartcard versions already exists of that.
- sukilot 10y ago
  IOW, salt your meat.
- entheon 10y ago
  Uh, no thanks! I'd like to avoid solutions that facilliate an implicit assent to the collection of biometric data. The plan you've outlined still has large organizations building massive libraries of immutable identity data. (they'll still have the fingerprints, however mixed and matched and re-ordered, and they'll still have the scanned faces) At the end of the day, we'd still be letting them, asking them, begging them to store our finger prints and recognize our faces. Putting bald data in the hands of amoral, faceless, collective entities like corporations and governments.
  - gcr 10y ago
    The work I'm thinking about (revocable biotokens) is a bit like a hash, so Facelesscorp never gets access to your raw biometric. The only thing Facelesscorp can see is an opaque blob that they can only use to verify a cooperative subject's identity; it's not useful for anything else.
nevir 10y ago
Assume it will happen. The technology is there, and there is sufficient motivation (both for "good" uses and "nefarious" ones). What should we change in our behavior? (I'm not talking about intentionally obscuring photos of ones self, but more about how systems like these will effect society)

by rmoriz 10y ago

osense 10y ago

> you can't change your face. You can obstruct it enough to confuse OpenCV: https://cvdazzle.com/ https://cvdazzle.com/ I wonder if this is the future of fashion?

beagle3 10y ago
It only confuses viola jones style haar detectors. You'd need different makeup for every detector.
- gravypod 10y ago
  Not to mention that is only for facial recognition. If you want to look at a much better way of tracking people check out CreapyDOL [1]. It works by looking only at wifi data. As he says it "Stalking an entire city on the cheap." Not only this, but if you want to stay in the CV realm you will also need to switch up: * Your stride * Your height * Width of shoulders * How far or if you sway your arms while walking All of those could be used to track an individual. It's not an absolute game, it's a numbers and percentage game. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvxD7p4Suw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvxD7p4Suw
  - icebraining 10y ago
    So, not even the scrambler suit from A Scanner Darkly would work? That's depressing.
drdaeman 10y ago
In some (quite a lot of!) jurisdictions there are already laws that prohibit concealing ones' face. While the laws are against masks, it won't be a big stretch (esp. for a rogue regime with a plenty of corrupt judges at hand) to apply or extend such laws for this sort of make-up as well. All in the name of public safety, of course.
- peteretep 10y ago
  Japanese style health masks
  - Namrog84 10y ago
    That'll only delay the inevitable. Hair. Height. Walking patterns. Stride Length. Each added Criteria helps improve the odds. Oh this masked person waked out of building but they know of 28 people identified in building. So even without identifing your face they only need to build Confidence among a very small subset. Even if you go from building to city or country. They could likely narrow it to high confidence especially if they can actively ID the locations of all others with similar characteristics as you.
Aelinsaar 10y ago
I think the future is just going to be characterized by massive, constant, widespread destruction of video cameras in public.
- jkaunisv1 10y ago
  And maybe the widespread adoption of burqas for everyone?
  - Aelinsaar 10y ago
    A good thermal camera, or maybe just gait recognition might not make that effective. No, break up the cameras for scrap.
  - jobigoud 10y ago
    No because it will be against the law to cover your face. (Burqas in public space are already against the law in France).
stordoff 10y ago
A little off-topic, but the licensing on that page is a mess. Originally: > Strictly no Ad-Trackers. Strictly no Google Analytics. Otherwise attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike Doesn't state which version of the license, and all Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike version prohibit additional restrictions. Currently: > As of April 28, 2016 I have revoke the Creative Commons license for these works because of projects like MegaFace. Despite the fact that the CC license is perpetual and cannot meaningfully be revoked.

wila 10y ago

In quite a few countries upon visiting they take a photo of your face. Some also add finger prints. You cannot obscure that photo as they won't allow you to do so. So yes this can be used against you, actually at th border it is only collected for that purpose, to be able to identify you as a possible suspect. Adding big data in the picture does make it more scary as I don't believe it is completely reliable. If you've been tagged as a possible suspect you might find a nasty surprise upon leaving the country.

peteretep 10y ago
As the only purpose? Isn't it a little bit more likely that they want to check the same person is using the same passport?
- occamrazor 10y ago
  The passport already contains a photo to ensure that only the legitimate owner uses it.
- wila 10y ago
  Well, i don't believe they take the picture for your benefit. Actually also seen that a picture is also taken on exit. So yes there might be more reasons like making sure the biometrics match with what is stored in the rfid chip on the passport. But you can bet that the data is stored and will be mined when needed.
  - hartpuff 10y ago
    Heathrow and maybe other UK airports, but not all, whether you're entering or exiting, will take (two) photos, AIUI, in order to verify the correct person is boarding the aircraft. Don't worry, they only keep your data for "as long as is necessary". http://www.heathrow.com/departures/security-and-baggage/flying-within-the-uk-and-ireland http://www.heathrow.com/departures/security-and-baggage/flyi...
  - peteretep 10y ago
    > Well, i don't believe they take the picture for your > benefit Why would anyone believe that?

thr32989 10y ago

This technology could be also used for "good". For example it takes lot of time to manually identify Trump supporters and email their employers. Now it can be automated.

venomsnake 10y ago

You can bribe someone to put fake data in the database next to your name.

rmoriz 10y ago
This may look like an option, but once technology has a low failure rate, everything that doesn't match or that does seem unusual will trigger an alarm. Just watch the airport security checks after 9/11 when entering the US: Either you provide a biometric passport accept x-ray radiation or you will be personally annoyed… for your own safety, of course. I believe this is not because of any bad intention, however it trains people to accept such strict rules and when it works there, why not enforce it in other parts of our civil life? For example after some madman shot at a german court house a couple of years ago, they started mandatory checks on every single court house as well. Another case from Germany: We have started to collect car plates from trucks on the Autobahn because of a new electronic toll system (only to catch trucks that don't have the onboard unit activated, no regular use case for visual checks). Of course those car plate recognition software by design is also able to save car plates… of course everything will be deleted… really? It might be true for the moment, but in the future?
- rhizome 10y ago
  It's going to be a long, long time before facial recognition has a low failure rate. It's hard enough with speech recognition.
  - rmoriz 10y ago
    Did you read the opening posting on VK.com? I guess it only takes 10-15 years. And in some situations, e.g. entrace checks, public transport etc. you've even right now a high chance to obtain great facial images because you (as in state, authority) are able to control the environment.
    - rhizome 10y ago
      From the article, they only get 90% accuracy in controlled conditions, and much, much worse when comparing images taken in the wild. In voice recognition, perhaps a smaller problem space, 90% accuracy means everything gets proofread by a human. "10-15 years" is not an estimate, it's a carrot on a stick. I can imagine that at some point, some level of accuracy will be deemed "accurate," after which we'll still see mistakes. That will be too bad in the eventuality that this technology is used to help justify a killing.

gcr 10y ago

Fingerprints also have this issue. You only get ten of them that should last your entire life. With cooperation, we can build 'revocable biometrics' that mix faces and fingerprints with a password or PIN. To revoke your biometric, simply forget your PIN. The only thing you can do with these models is verify your claimed identity. They can't be used for search. So they're great for users, but not so great for evil establishments that want to search for terrorists or whatever in large biometrics databases.

Natanael_L 10y ago
That's basically a hardware token with fingerprint readers. Smartcard versions already exists of that.
sukilot 10y ago
IOW, salt your meat.
entheon 10y ago
Uh, no thanks! I'd like to avoid solutions that facilliate an implicit assent to the collection of biometric data. The plan you've outlined still has large organizations building massive libraries of immutable identity data. (they'll still have the fingerprints, however mixed and matched and re-ordered, and they'll still have the scanned faces) At the end of the day, we'd still be letting them, asking them, begging them to store our finger prints and recognize our faces. Putting bald data in the hands of amoral, faceless, collective entities like corporations and governments.
- gcr 10y ago
  The work I'm thinking about (revocable biotokens) is a bit like a hash, so Facelesscorp never gets access to your raw biometric. The only thing Facelesscorp can see is an opaque blob that they can only use to verify a cooperative subject's identity; it's not useful for anything else.

nevir 10y ago

Assume it will happen. The technology is there, and there is sufficient motivation (both for "good" uses and "nefarious" ones). What should we change in our behavior? (I'm not talking about intentionally obscuring photos of ones self, but more about how systems like these will effect society)