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What? That's pessimistic. I can't think of any rule governing the universe that mandates "industrial scale" to be "insustainable." Improvements in science and t

What? That's pessimistic. I can't think of any rule governing the universe that mandates "industrial scale" to be "insustainable." Improvements in science and technology have changed the course of human history, making what seemed previously impossible to be now common place, and taken for granted.

pessimizer 10y ago
> making what seemed previously impossible to be now common place, and taken for granted. In lockstep with that progress in science and technology came a commensurate decay in sustainability. Nobody imagined that we could eradicate most of its diversity, burn enough of it to actually drive up its temperature permanently, or create the possibility of exploding and irradiating the entire thing with the press of a button. Now those things are commonplace, and taken for granted. Before improvements in science and technology there was no question that human life as it was lived was sustainable indefinitely; after those improvements, there are very few serious scientists who wouldn't register disgust at hearing that claim made now.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  I disagree - we never have really thought that we could live indefinitely and sustain ourselves. Overpopulation has been a fear since Plato at least (https://fee.org/articles/overpopulation-the-perennial-myth/ https://fee.org/articles/overpopulation-the-perennial-myth/). We hunted things to extinction and knew it. Plus there were more diseases to worry about, death rates for child-bearing women were high as well as the child death rate. Really, if you weren't worried one way, you were worried another. Different times simply frame problems differently. At least we are more aware of some of the stuff now, even if we haven't scientifically figured it all out nor figured out how to work together enough to solve them.
  - wallace_f 10y ago
    Exactly. Fear of technology, and even industrialization, have also been around, probably as long as technology and industrialization have. Every generation has had these same sentiments and concerns, just framed in a different era.

pessimizer 10y ago

> making what seemed previously impossible to be now common place, and taken for granted. In lockstep with that progress in science and technology came a commensurate decay in sustainability. Nobody imagined that we could eradicate most of its diversity, burn enough of it to actually drive up its temperature permanently, or create the possibility of exploding and irradiating the entire thing with the press of a button. Now those things are commonplace, and taken for granted. Before improvements in science and technology there was no question that human life as it was lived was sustainable indefinitely; after those improvements, there are very few serious scientists who wouldn't register disgust at hearing that claim made now.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago
I disagree - we never have really thought that we could live indefinitely and sustain ourselves. Overpopulation has been a fear since Plato at least (https://fee.org/articles/overpopulation-the-perennial-myth/ https://fee.org/articles/overpopulation-the-perennial-myth/). We hunted things to extinction and knew it. Plus there were more diseases to worry about, death rates for child-bearing women were high as well as the child death rate. Really, if you weren't worried one way, you were worried another. Different times simply frame problems differently. At least we are more aware of some of the stuff now, even if we haven't scientifically figured it all out nor figured out how to work together enough to solve them.
- wallace_f 10y ago
  Exactly. Fear of technology, and even industrialization, have also been around, probably as long as technology and industrialization have. Every generation has had these same sentiments and concerns, just framed in a different era.