5 ms·

> You could also have eugenics designed to increase the number of 'quality' people. Say, for example, giving money to people with an IQ higher than 150 to make

by qb45 10y ago

> You could also have eugenics designed to increase the number of 'quality' people. Say, for example, giving money to people with an IQ higher than 150 to make more children. Or those with amazing athletics skills, or amazing beauty... And have a world full of Aspergers and Schizos (correlated with IQ) or some giant mutants unable to survive the next asteroid strike. I hope you get the point - we have no idea what we are doing.

wbl 10y ago
You say that like being an Aspie is bad. Of course IQ genes don't as far as we know have bad side effects. It seems Fischerian, and actually uncorrected to ASD.
- jschwartzi 10y ago
  A lot of people say "Aspie" when they really just mean "socially mal-adjusted turbo nerd." It happens that lots of smart people are generally nice and can read a room. You just don't hear about them because they aren't constantly talking about their IQ.
- qb45 10y ago
  Did somebody really manage to isolate some "IQ genes" and demonstrate that just changing them makes one dumber or smarter with no other effects?
Frozenlock 10y ago
Sure, but it's not like we can just sit on our hands and wait until we are 100% sure of what we could do; the welfare state is already selecting for us. And in my experience, most people are opposed to getting rid of the welfare state. This means that the choice is not "eugenic or do nothing", it's "eugenic or dysgenic".
- qb45 10y ago
  Welfare states seem to depopulate recently so if it's true that they produce "unfit" people, they are harming more themselves than anybody else.
  - burfog 10y ago
    This is a short-term effect, and you have the fitness function backwards. The portion of the population that takes action to avoid living in squalor is unfit because they fail to reproduce well enough for replacement. Meanwhile, the portion of the population that fails to avoid squalor is breeding in a most exponential way. That portion was historically kept in check by death, but now has been unleashed. So one type of person is on the way to extinction, and another type is growing without bound. Currently this means the the total population (both groups together) is shrinking, but that will change.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
mercer 10y ago
I don't know about Schizophrenia, but I think a world with more high-IQ people with Asperger's wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I mean, I'm not a proponent of the (semi-serious?) thought that "aspies are the next step in human evolution", but since I was diagnosed myself recently, I've found myself imagining what such a world would be like every once in a while... Anyways, I'm all in favor of some forms of 'eugenics' as our knowledge about the effects increase. We've been helping our own evolution along for quite a while now, so I don't see why tinkering with our genes should somehow be completely off-limits.
gwern 10y ago
> Schizos (correlated with IQ) Schizophrenia may (or may not) correlate on the phenotype level, but genetically, they are inverses. Genetic risk for schizophrenia lowers IQ in GCTAs, genetic correlation, and family studies. If you select for intelligence, you will get less schizophrenia, and if you select against schizophrenia, you will get more intelligence.
- qb45 10y ago
  Good catch. I'm not sure where I got this idea that schizophrenia is more likely to develop in high-IQ individuals, but that's what I thought.

by qb45 10y ago

wbl 10y ago

You say that like being an Aspie is bad. Of course IQ genes don't as far as we know have bad side effects. It seems Fischerian, and actually uncorrected to ASD.

jschwartzi 10y ago
A lot of people say "Aspie" when they really just mean "socially mal-adjusted turbo nerd." It happens that lots of smart people are generally nice and can read a room. You just don't hear about them because they aren't constantly talking about their IQ.
qb45 10y ago
Did somebody really manage to isolate some "IQ genes" and demonstrate that just changing them makes one dumber or smarter with no other effects?

Frozenlock 10y ago

Sure, but it's not like we can just sit on our hands and wait until we are 100% sure of what we could do; the welfare state is already selecting for us. And in my experience, most people are opposed to getting rid of the welfare state. This means that the choice is not "eugenic or do nothing", it's "eugenic or dysgenic".

qb45 10y ago
Welfare states seem to depopulate recently so if it's true that they produce "unfit" people, they are harming more themselves than anybody else.
- burfog 10y ago
  This is a short-term effect, and you have the fitness function backwards. The portion of the population that takes action to avoid living in squalor is unfit because they fail to reproduce well enough for replacement. Meanwhile, the portion of the population that fails to avoid squalor is breeding in a most exponential way. That portion was historically kept in check by death, but now has been unleashed. So one type of person is on the way to extinction, and another type is growing without bound. Currently this means the the total population (both groups together) is shrinking, but that will change.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

mercer 10y ago

I don't know about Schizophrenia, but I think a world with more high-IQ people with Asperger's wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I mean, I'm not a proponent of the (semi-serious?) thought that "aspies are the next step in human evolution", but since I was diagnosed myself recently, I've found myself imagining what such a world would be like every once in a while... Anyways, I'm all in favor of some forms of 'eugenics' as our knowledge about the effects increase. We've been helping our own evolution along for quite a while now, so I don't see why tinkering with our genes should somehow be completely off-limits.

gwern 10y ago

> Schizos (correlated with IQ) Schizophrenia may (or may not) correlate on the phenotype level, but genetically, they are inverses. Genetic risk for schizophrenia lowers IQ in GCTAs, genetic correlation, and family studies. If you select for intelligence, you will get less schizophrenia, and if you select against schizophrenia, you will get more intelligence.

qb45 10y ago
Good catch. I'm not sure where I got this idea that schizophrenia is more likely to develop in high-IQ individuals, but that's what I thought.