5 ms·

Changing the way people get stuff done is one of the hardest things to succeed at. We're not assholes unless you come talk to us without checking your assumpti

by mveety 10y ago

Changing the way people get stuff done is one of the hardest things to succeed at. We're not assholes unless you come talk to us without checking your assumptions and entitlement at the door. Probably.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Really? Cat-v and many other sites that are fans of plan 9, as I said, seemingly refuse to believe that's happened in the UNIX world has any merit, claiming that it is either a) overly complicated, or b) useless. So I'll attempt to refute most of cat-v right now. You know, sometimes things are unnecessarily complicated (I'm looking at you, systemd), but there are REASONS for things like python and ruby. Pthreads or and forks are necessary to build CSP-concurrency, and are in fact simpler and more unix-y than them (I'm NOT saying they're better, but they are closer to the unix spirit in many ways. You did read ALL of Lisp: The Good News, The Bad News, And How To Win Big, right?). Bash and ZSH kind of suck, but none of the other shells are really any better, because the really problem is the f*king INSANE standard, which codifies the absolutely insane behaviors that shells are supposed to have. RC is better than most, being from plan 9, but it still has plenty of warts. GCC and Clang may not be perfect, but they generate better code than 8c ever did, and have world-class teams working on them. automake is TERRIBLE, but you really do need something more complex than Makefiles sometimes, so scons is probably your best option. See above about Python. GUIs exist for a reason, and while glib sucks, you can't replace it with libc. There are other libraries, though. Emacs is more powerful than ACME, and you can't just ask people to learn a new interface because you hate VI. UTF-32 (UTF-16 DOES suck NOW, it didn't always) has different trade-offs from UTF-8, and is a legitimate choice sometimes. I shouldn't have to explain why you can't just replace SQL with hierarchical databases, or non-relational databases. Maybe you can sometimes, but not in the general case, and not with good performance. Just because you use OpenBSD doesn't mean that everybody should. Solaris and FreeBSD have some technical advantages as well (e.x. jails). SVG, PDF, and EPUB cannot be replaced by postscript. I mean, come on, you say you want security, and then you advocate an image standard that's TURING COMPLETE, effectively giving any image the capability to crash your computer, or inject code, if there's a flaw in your postscript implementation. I used to think that cat-v was somewhat satire, but it really didn't seem that way, once I'd read what people were saying on it. And that is really sad, IMHO.

by mveety 10y ago

qwertyuiop924 10y ago

Really? Cat-v and many other sites that are fans of plan 9, as I said, seemingly refuse to believe that's happened in the UNIX world has any merit, claiming that it is either a) overly complicated, or b) useless. So I'll attempt to refute most of cat-v right now. You know, sometimes things are unnecessarily complicated (I'm looking at you, systemd), but there are REASONS for things like python and ruby. Pthreads or and forks are necessary to build CSP-concurrency, and are in fact simpler and more unix-y than them (I'm NOT saying they're better, but they are closer to the unix spirit in many ways. You did read ALL of Lisp: The Good News, The Bad News, And How To Win Big, right?). Bash and ZSH kind of suck, but none of the other shells are really any better, because the really problem is the f*king INSANE standard, which codifies the absolutely insane behaviors that shells are supposed to have. RC is better than most, being from plan 9, but it still has plenty of warts. GCC and Clang may not be perfect, but they generate better code than 8c ever did, and have world-class teams working on them. automake is TERRIBLE, but you really do need something more complex than Makefiles sometimes, so scons is probably your best option. See above about Python. GUIs exist for a reason, and while glib sucks, you can't replace it with libc. There are other libraries, though. Emacs is more powerful than ACME, and you can't just ask people to learn a new interface because you hate VI. UTF-32 (UTF-16 DOES suck NOW, it didn't always) has different trade-offs from UTF-8, and is a legitimate choice sometimes. I shouldn't have to explain why you can't just replace SQL with hierarchical databases, or non-relational databases. Maybe you can sometimes, but not in the general case, and not with good performance. Just because you use OpenBSD doesn't mean that everybody should. Solaris and FreeBSD have some technical advantages as well (e.x. jails). SVG, PDF, and EPUB cannot be replaced by postscript. I mean, come on, you say you want security, and then you advocate an image standard that's TURING COMPLETE, effectively giving any image the capability to crash your computer, or inject code, if there's a flaw in your postscript implementation. I used to think that cat-v was somewhat satire, but it really didn't seem that way, once I'd read what people were saying on it. And that is really sad, IMHO.