9 ms·

Germany has the lowest birthrate in the world. It seems like the German government should create policies that encourage men and women to have more children li

Germany has the lowest birthrate in the world. It seems like the German government should create policies that encourage men and women to have more children like free/heavily subsidized daycare, tax incentives, and maybe even payments. Here in the US I can see how the Ehler's financial problems would became significant with a 4th child. But given the low birthrate in Germany it seems like Germans could be more generous to those who are willing to have more babies. [source:] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32929962 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32929962

zo1 10y ago
Why do you have to incentivise an increase in the birth rate? Why does it always seem when there is a discussion of birthrate, it's somehow automatically assumed that low-birthrate == "bad", with the obvious next point being that it has to be fixed. Honestly, from my point of view as a free-minded individual, this is exactly the sort of thing that is quite frankly disturbing about government intervention. Society is seen as some sort of grand-experiment that needs to be tweaked and prodded in order to optimize X or reduce the risk of Y, in endless different contexts.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > Why do you have to incentivise an increase in the birth rate? The pension system needs a next generation that will pay when the current generation is in old-age pension. Feel free to call it an obligatory pyramid scheme.
erikpukinskis 10y ago
Why make more babies when you can just take immigrants?
- cb18 10y ago
  Because if you have an interest in Germany continuing to exist in the future, you need German people. A country filled with Arabs, Africans, and Afghans isn't Germany, peoples aren't fungible in that way.
  - ItendToDisagree 10y ago
    Yes. I'm sure all of the Germans of Turkish familial origin would agree... They aren't Germans. Even though they were born in Germany and speak German. You can be non-Caucasian and still be German. That is what you were getting at right?
    - adrianN 10y ago
      Many of the Germans of Turkish familial origin still self-identify as Turks, not as German, or as both Turkish and German, in the second or third generation. You certainly can be German and non-caucasian, but you actually have to believe yourself to be German and be part of German culture.
      - ItendToDisagree 10y ago
        Fairly sure that most Americans of Japanese ancestry consider themselves both Japanese and American. Same goes for most other ethnicity. Does that make them any LESS American? Many Puerto Ricans consider themselves both Puerto Rican AND American. This is especially interesting given Puerto Rico is an American territory yet it is considered a different cultural group. Germans of Turkish descent are in fact still Turkish regardless of generation. Similarly Germans of Chinese descent are still Chinese while also being German. Your final sentence is the nut. The rest of it is just discrimination (small d) of people into cultural groups. (Edit: As an aside... Is Doner German culture? Or is it Turkish?)
        ATsch 10y ago
        Döner is a traditional Turkish meal. It is sold as a dish on rice, on a bread, or in a wrap. However, the Döner Kebab as it is known in Germany today originated with immigrants in Berlin. I don't think it's easy to say what culture it is. The German Döner is still very similar to the traditional meal, but "Eating a Döner" has engrained itself deeply into German culture. Normally, when eating foreign food, you'd call it by the country it comes from. If you order a burrito, you're "Eating Mexican", if you order a Pasta you're "eating Italian" and if you are having sushi you are "eating Asian". But you don't "eat Turkish" when eating a Döner. I don't have an Answer, I just thought I'd share my thoughts.
weinzierl 10y ago
>...free/heavily subsidized daycare, tax incentives, and maybe even payments. We have all of this in Germany. Child care is not free but heavily subsidized, even more there is a right to child care for children from age one to six [1]. Tax reductions are more complicated, broadly speaking the tax exempt amount for every child is around 7000 EUR - not too bad [2 (in German, look for the table in the section "Höhe des Kinderfreibetrages")] . Payments "Child benefit" are [3]: 1 Child 184 EUR/month 2 Children 386 EUR/month 3 Children 558 EUR/month additional child 215 EUR/month The source has a comparison with other countries and while difficult to compare I think Germany is in the top. [1] https://www.deutschland.de/en/topic/politics/germany-europe/childcare-in-germany https://www.deutschland.de/en/topic/politics/germany-europe/... [2] http://www.kindergeld.org/kinderfreibetrag.html http://www.kindergeld.org/kinderfreibetrag.html [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_benefit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_benefit
- crucialfelix 10y ago
  You can also add 14 months of ma/paternity leave (67% of income replaced, max €1800/mo) Child benefit (Kindergeld) goes until the age of 18
  - weinzierl 10y ago
    > You can also add 14 months of ma/paternity leave (67% of income replaced, max €1800/mo) Yes, and it's a right, your employer can't refuse it. If I remember correctly the 14 months is only if both parents take part, 12 months otherwise. 12 months for the wife, 2 months for the husband is typical. > Child benefit (Kindergeld) goes until the age of 18 Even until 25 if your children have no income of their own, e.g. when they are go to college.
    - crucialfelix 10y ago
      There is a confusing but splendid program called elterngeld-plus. You take half time (25-30 std/wo) and get half money but for twice as long. If both partners take it at the same time for 4 parallel months then you receive a bonus 4 months (which you can also take as half time which means 8 months). You could theoretically get 28 months of half-money/half-time.
77pt77 10y ago
Germany doesn't have the lowest birth rate of Europe, let alone the world.

zo1 10y ago

Why do you have to incentivise an increase in the birth rate? Why does it always seem when there is a discussion of birthrate, it's somehow automatically assumed that low-birthrate == "bad", with the obvious next point being that it has to be fixed. Honestly, from my point of view as a free-minded individual, this is exactly the sort of thing that is quite frankly disturbing about government intervention. Society is seen as some sort of grand-experiment that needs to be tweaked and prodded in order to optimize X or reduce the risk of Y, in endless different contexts.

wolfgke 10y ago
> Why do you have to incentivise an increase in the birth rate? The pension system needs a next generation that will pay when the current generation is in old-age pension. Feel free to call it an obligatory pyramid scheme.

erikpukinskis 10y ago

Why make more babies when you can just take immigrants?

cb18 10y ago
Because if you have an interest in Germany continuing to exist in the future, you need German people. A country filled with Arabs, Africans, and Afghans isn't Germany, peoples aren't fungible in that way.
- ItendToDisagree 10y ago
  Yes. I'm sure all of the Germans of Turkish familial origin would agree... They aren't Germans. Even though they were born in Germany and speak German. You can be non-Caucasian and still be German. That is what you were getting at right?
  - adrianN 10y ago
    Many of the Germans of Turkish familial origin still self-identify as Turks, not as German, or as both Turkish and German, in the second or third generation. You certainly can be German and non-caucasian, but you actually have to believe yourself to be German and be part of German culture.
    - ItendToDisagree 10y ago
      Fairly sure that most Americans of Japanese ancestry consider themselves both Japanese and American. Same goes for most other ethnicity. Does that make them any LESS American? Many Puerto Ricans consider themselves both Puerto Rican AND American. This is especially interesting given Puerto Rico is an American territory yet it is considered a different cultural group. Germans of Turkish descent are in fact still Turkish regardless of generation. Similarly Germans of Chinese descent are still Chinese while also being German. Your final sentence is the nut. The rest of it is just discrimination (small d) of people into cultural groups. (Edit: As an aside... Is Doner German culture? Or is it Turkish?)
      - ATsch 10y ago
        Döner is a traditional Turkish meal. It is sold as a dish on rice, on a bread, or in a wrap. However, the Döner Kebab as it is known in Germany today originated with immigrants in Berlin. I don't think it's easy to say what culture it is. The German Döner is still very similar to the traditional meal, but "Eating a Döner" has engrained itself deeply into German culture. Normally, when eating foreign food, you'd call it by the country it comes from. If you order a burrito, you're "Eating Mexican", if you order a Pasta you're "eating Italian" and if you are having sushi you are "eating Asian". But you don't "eat Turkish" when eating a Döner. I don't have an Answer, I just thought I'd share my thoughts.

weinzierl 10y ago

>...free/heavily subsidized daycare, tax incentives, and maybe even payments. We have all of this in Germany. Child care is not free but heavily subsidized, even more there is a right to child care for children from age one to six [1]. Tax reductions are more complicated, broadly speaking the tax exempt amount for every child is around 7000 EUR - not too bad [2 (in German, look for the table in the section "Höhe des Kinderfreibetrages")] . Payments "Child benefit" are [3]: 1 Child 184 EUR/month 2 Children 386 EUR/month 3 Children 558 EUR/month additional child 215 EUR/month The source has a comparison with other countries and while difficult to compare I think Germany is in the top. [1] https://www.deutschland.de/en/topic/politics/germany-europe/childcare-in-germany https://www.deutschland.de/en/topic/politics/germany-europe/... [2] http://www.kindergeld.org/kinderfreibetrag.html http://www.kindergeld.org/kinderfreibetrag.html [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_benefit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_benefit

crucialfelix 10y ago
You can also add 14 months of ma/paternity leave (67% of income replaced, max €1800/mo) Child benefit (Kindergeld) goes until the age of 18
- weinzierl 10y ago
  > You can also add 14 months of ma/paternity leave (67% of income replaced, max €1800/mo) Yes, and it's a right, your employer can't refuse it. If I remember correctly the 14 months is only if both parents take part, 12 months otherwise. 12 months for the wife, 2 months for the husband is typical. > Child benefit (Kindergeld) goes until the age of 18 Even until 25 if your children have no income of their own, e.g. when they are go to college.
  - crucialfelix 10y ago
    There is a confusing but splendid program called elterngeld-plus. You take half time (25-30 std/wo) and get half money but for twice as long. If both partners take it at the same time for 4 parallel months then you receive a bonus 4 months (which you can also take as half time which means 8 months). You could theoretically get 28 months of half-money/half-time.

77pt77 10y ago

Germany doesn't have the lowest birth rate of Europe, let alone the world.