4 ms·

When we were refugees in Germany, my parents felt stuck in a tiny town with few jobs because the job center made mobility out of the place you "landed in" extre

by krisdol 10y ago

When we were refugees in Germany, my parents felt stuck in a tiny town with few jobs because the job center made mobility out of the place you "landed in" extremely difficult. Being able to travel and move about the country freely can make a big difference economically. By the time we moved to a different place Germany decided to kick out every refugee, and in the meantime made rules requiring jobs go to natives first, if one is applying, and refugees second. So in the end it didn't matter that we didn't live in a big city because everyone got the boot. We weren't terribly poor, not average certainly, but it was more of a struggle than it should have been. In the US, on the other hand, they barely spent any time on government assistance because they moved upwards professionally, got compensated well, became citizens, bought a house, and funny enough sold it and bought couple more in Germany.

allendoerfer 10y ago
>and in the meantime made rules requiring jobs go to natives first, if one is applying, and refugees second Do you have a citation for this one?
- krisdol 10y ago
  https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/07/bos-j16.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/07/bos-j16.html >As early as the end of September 1997 the employment offices were given instructions to systematically withdraw the work permits for Bosnians. Thousands of Bosnians, many of whom had worked in Germany for years, received duplicated forms, in generally restrained wording, notifying them that the employment centres had to first check whether there was a German available for the job.
  - allendoerfer 10y ago
    Okay, I might get downvoted for this, but do you have a source that is not published by a marxist political party and called "World Socialist Web Site"?
    - c06n 10y ago
      It is true and called a "precedence check". Unfortunately I don't have an English source, here is §39 of the German residency law: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__39.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__39.html Maybe Google Translate can help you getting the gist of it. Bottom line: Foreigners can only be employed if there are no negative consequences for German citizens.
- nikolak 10y ago
  I come from non-EU country and recently got a job in Germany, you can not get agreement from the federal employment agency to take that position if there are German citizens, or people from other EU countries, who would be qualified and interested in that position. I think the company also had to agree to allow employment agency to, either anonymously or publicly, publish ad for the job themselves for a couple of weeks. Source from the federal employment agency: >Die Ausländerbehörde holt die Zustimmung der Bundesagentur für Arbeit ein: Dort wird geprüft, ob es für die Ihnen angebotene Stelle bevorrechtigte Bewerberinnen oder Bewerber gibt. In diesem Fall können Sie für diese Stelle keine Zulassung auf dem deutschen Arbeitsmarkt erhalten. https://www.arbeitsagentur.de/web/wcm/idc/groups/public/documents/webdatei/mdaw/mtiw/~edisp/l6019022dstbai799563.pdf?_ba.sid=L6019022DSTBAI799633 https://www.arbeitsagentur.de/web/wcm/idc/groups/public/docu... Note: There are different types of visas, and this might not be a requirement for all of them, but it was the requirement for me.
  - kogepathic 10y ago
    > you can not get agreement from the federal employment agency to take that position if there are German citizens, or people from other EU countries, who would be qualified and interested in that position. I'm also from a non-EU country, so this rule applies to me. I've been living and working in Germany for a few years, and while this rule does exist, I've never seen it used to deny me a work visa. > I think the company also had to agree to allow employment agency to, either anonymously or publicly, publish ad for the job themselves for a couple of weeks. Yes, the company has to prove that they at least tried to hire Germans or other Europeans. However, just because there are potentially people who are qualified, doesn't mean the company is obligated to hire them. The company is obligated to show that they published the job description and allowed Europeans to apply, and that they made some amount of effort (e.g. interviews) for Europeans, but none of them had the skills, or fit the team, or were willing to be paid the salary offered. > Note: There are different types of visas, and this might not be a requirement for all of them, but it was the requirement for me. Typically you can avoid this if you have studied a Bachelor or Master degree in Germany, as then you are viewed as a preferred candidate and are basically on the same level as native Germans (some restrictions apply). We've actually been trying to hire another team member at my current company, and of all the applications we received, less than 10% of people were German, and probably only 60% were part of the Eurozone. This isn't a job which requires rocket science, but seemingly no Germans want to apply, so we're going through the process to get a visa for someone from a European (but non EU) country because they were the best candidate and didn't have ridiculous salary expectations (someone said they wanted 120k EUR for a mid-level IT position... mmmmmmkay, no)

by krisdol 10y ago

allendoerfer 10y ago

>and in the meantime made rules requiring jobs go to natives first, if one is applying, and refugees second Do you have a citation for this one?

krisdol 10y ago
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/07/bos-j16.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/07/bos-j16.html >As early as the end of September 1997 the employment offices were given instructions to systematically withdraw the work permits for Bosnians. Thousands of Bosnians, many of whom had worked in Germany for years, received duplicated forms, in generally restrained wording, notifying them that the employment centres had to first check whether there was a German available for the job.
- allendoerfer 10y ago
  Okay, I might get downvoted for this, but do you have a source that is not published by a marxist political party and called "World Socialist Web Site"?
  - c06n 10y ago
    It is true and called a "precedence check". Unfortunately I don't have an English source, here is §39 of the German residency law: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__39.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__39.html Maybe Google Translate can help you getting the gist of it. Bottom line: Foreigners can only be employed if there are no negative consequences for German citizens.
nikolak 10y ago
I come from non-EU country and recently got a job in Germany, you can not get agreement from the federal employment agency to take that position if there are German citizens, or people from other EU countries, who would be qualified and interested in that position. I think the company also had to agree to allow employment agency to, either anonymously or publicly, publish ad for the job themselves for a couple of weeks. Source from the federal employment agency: >Die Ausländerbehörde holt die Zustimmung der Bundesagentur für Arbeit ein: Dort wird geprüft, ob es für die Ihnen angebotene Stelle bevorrechtigte Bewerberinnen oder Bewerber gibt. In diesem Fall können Sie für diese Stelle keine Zulassung auf dem deutschen Arbeitsmarkt erhalten. https://www.arbeitsagentur.de/web/wcm/idc/groups/public/documents/webdatei/mdaw/mtiw/~edisp/l6019022dstbai799563.pdf?_ba.sid=L6019022DSTBAI799633 https://www.arbeitsagentur.de/web/wcm/idc/groups/public/docu... Note: There are different types of visas, and this might not be a requirement for all of them, but it was the requirement for me.
- kogepathic 10y ago
  > you can not get agreement from the federal employment agency to take that position if there are German citizens, or people from other EU countries, who would be qualified and interested in that position. I'm also from a non-EU country, so this rule applies to me. I've been living and working in Germany for a few years, and while this rule does exist, I've never seen it used to deny me a work visa. > I think the company also had to agree to allow employment agency to, either anonymously or publicly, publish ad for the job themselves for a couple of weeks. Yes, the company has to prove that they at least tried to hire Germans or other Europeans. However, just because there are potentially people who are qualified, doesn't mean the company is obligated to hire them. The company is obligated to show that they published the job description and allowed Europeans to apply, and that they made some amount of effort (e.g. interviews) for Europeans, but none of them had the skills, or fit the team, or were willing to be paid the salary offered. > Note: There are different types of visas, and this might not be a requirement for all of them, but it was the requirement for me. Typically you can avoid this if you have studied a Bachelor or Master degree in Germany, as then you are viewed as a preferred candidate and are basically on the same level as native Germans (some restrictions apply). We've actually been trying to hire another team member at my current company, and of all the applications we received, less than 10% of people were German, and probably only 60% were part of the Eurozone. This isn't a job which requires rocket science, but seemingly no Germans want to apply, so we're going through the process to get a visa for someone from a European (but non EU) country because they were the best candidate and didn't have ridiculous salary expectations (someone said they wanted 120k EUR for a mid-level IT position... mmmmmmkay, no)