7 ms·

Germany has a Transsexual law from 1987. Currently I'm undergoing the name change process, since all paperwork has to go under my old name (who is this guy?? Wh

Germany has a Transsexual law from 1987. Currently I'm undergoing the name change process, since all paperwork has to go under my old name (who is this guy?? Why do I have to sign for someone else?). They won't even change my bank account name, which would be a start (I've been a customer with them for over 20 years and they don't trust me and my "transgender passport"). So, currently, a judge is deciding on my fate on this. I've done their interrogation, visited two psychologists now and one of the letters has some crap written in it, which might, at worst case trap me another 1 1/2 years in this situation. Without the legal name change done, work life is limited: - I have to tell any employer my old name - If I start/join a startup, I have to use my old name. Plus it'll cost lots of money to change it once my name change process succeeds. - If I want to do freelancing, they want my old name for all paperworks. Then the thing with my bank account.. Using my old name is discouraging to any job I do. Also not being treated as an adult who can make their own life choices is highly discouraging.

bobwaycott 10y ago
Holy shit. I'm so sorry. I can't even begin to imagine what hell this must be. Is there no hope for change of the laws and how society deals with this?
- jglauche 10y ago
  The changing of the law is long overdue. Parts of it have been nullified by the highest German court in 2011 already. The conservatives probably won't do anything unless the EU forces Germany to update their laws. Society is fine with it, with very few exceptions. As long as I don't include the right winged xenophobic/islamophobic idiots to society. Unfortunately they've gained a lot of strength lately.
- DasIch 10y ago
  The problem here is quite similar to the issue of marriage for all. Technically there is (probably) a majority for it but the CDU which is currently in government is against it. Additionally there are other issues that are considered more important either because they're more popular or affect more people, so the SPD isn't willing to burn political capital. Given the current political situation in Germany and more broadly in Europe, there won't be any policy change in this legislative period or the next, so at least ~5 years. In fact there is a risk the situation might get worse in the next legislative period. Hard to predict what will happen beyond that, a lot can happen in that timeframe, Merkel will probably retire and the political landscape could shift drastically in response.
aninhumer 10y ago
So I have no experience of this, and I'm perhaps being insensitive but... Would it not have been possible to continue using your old name for legal purposes, and just use your new name in all other contexts? I can certainly imagine various downsides of doing so, but if the name change process is that onerous, perhaps it might still have been better overall?
- jglauche 10y ago
  I'd never get anything done. The feeling is quite hard to explain to cis people. But I'll try anyway. So you're trapped in a life that you don't want to live in. You've been trapped in there for too long. When you finally step out, you need to fight your outside world. But despite doing the right things and hurting nobody in the process, some of the outside world fights against you. You hate it. You feel patronized every time that happens. You're not the free person anymore that you used to be. [This might be possible to deal with for some other trans people. Some have both boy and girl mode where they switch. My mind is not up to that because one side of it is a lie]
  - aninhumer 10y ago
    I suppose what I'm imagining is that you would treat it as a legacy identifier for legal purposes, and you'd only ever have to use it very infrequently for the benefit of bureaucrats. Like, that's just the string on your birth certificate, it doesn't define you as a person any more than your [relevant governmental ID number]. That said, I can certainly see how that could still be unpleasant, but to me, it sounds like the process you're going through at the moment is far more disruptive and unpleasant?
    - jglauche 10y ago
      First of all, it's not that infrequently, if you add checking your bank account. That's one thing you do way more often if you are (self-)employed. Problem is, seeing my old name might, if I'm in a very good mood not do anything, or if I'm in a not so good mood dig up/trigger my emotional trauma that sits deep inside of me. You couldn't understand how it feels like, assuming you're a cis person. Trying to reason with logic does not work, this is an emotional issue. And it won't go away until I have eliminated the source of this problem. In addition, taking female hormones do make emotional issues more... intense.
cstejerean 10y ago
I have no idea what the laws are in Germany for contracting, but would it be possible to open up your own company and freelance through that? That way clients should should only have to deal with the business name not your personal name. This is relatively easy to do in the US, not sure about Germany though.
- jglauche 10y ago
  If you have a business in Germany, they require you do use your name on your passport. They require the name of the director on an "imprint" page on your website. Plus, obviously the costs of going to the notary when my name change goes through.
Frompo 10y ago
What? Do you have to go to a judge if you want to change your name in general, or is there a special law that say that if you change your name to something differently gendered you need a judge? I have a trans friend and the biggest name related problem E. had was getting a new user account at work (as far as I know anyway).
- germanier 10y ago
  Changing your name in general is not easy in Germany. There is a short list of allowed reasons for doing so, each with its own process. Reasons would be things like: Marriage, gender change (in Germany at least one for your first names needs to indicate your gender), unfortunate or funny name, or at naturalization to make your name more German-sounding. Outside of that it's almost impossible to change your name.
  - eru 10y ago
    However, getting a stage name or artist pseudonym recognized is relatively easy. (But probably wouldn't help a transgender person feel better.)
eru 10y ago
By the way, I always wondered how Germany treats name changes in other countries. I grew up in Germany. I live overseas now. I could change my name here relatively easily, I think. I wonder how hard it would be to get that recognized back in Germany.

bobwaycott 10y ago

Holy shit. I'm so sorry. I can't even begin to imagine what hell this must be. Is there no hope for change of the laws and how society deals with this?

jglauche 10y ago
The changing of the law is long overdue. Parts of it have been nullified by the highest German court in 2011 already. The conservatives probably won't do anything unless the EU forces Germany to update their laws. Society is fine with it, with very few exceptions. As long as I don't include the right winged xenophobic/islamophobic idiots to society. Unfortunately they've gained a lot of strength lately.
DasIch 10y ago
The problem here is quite similar to the issue of marriage for all. Technically there is (probably) a majority for it but the CDU which is currently in government is against it. Additionally there are other issues that are considered more important either because they're more popular or affect more people, so the SPD isn't willing to burn political capital. Given the current political situation in Germany and more broadly in Europe, there won't be any policy change in this legislative period or the next, so at least ~5 years. In fact there is a risk the situation might get worse in the next legislative period. Hard to predict what will happen beyond that, a lot can happen in that timeframe, Merkel will probably retire and the political landscape could shift drastically in response.

aninhumer 10y ago

So I have no experience of this, and I'm perhaps being insensitive but... Would it not have been possible to continue using your old name for legal purposes, and just use your new name in all other contexts? I can certainly imagine various downsides of doing so, but if the name change process is that onerous, perhaps it might still have been better overall?

jglauche 10y ago
I'd never get anything done. The feeling is quite hard to explain to cis people. But I'll try anyway. So you're trapped in a life that you don't want to live in. You've been trapped in there for too long. When you finally step out, you need to fight your outside world. But despite doing the right things and hurting nobody in the process, some of the outside world fights against you. You hate it. You feel patronized every time that happens. You're not the free person anymore that you used to be. [This might be possible to deal with for some other trans people. Some have both boy and girl mode where they switch. My mind is not up to that because one side of it is a lie]
- aninhumer 10y ago
  I suppose what I'm imagining is that you would treat it as a legacy identifier for legal purposes, and you'd only ever have to use it very infrequently for the benefit of bureaucrats. Like, that's just the string on your birth certificate, it doesn't define you as a person any more than your [relevant governmental ID number]. That said, I can certainly see how that could still be unpleasant, but to me, it sounds like the process you're going through at the moment is far more disruptive and unpleasant?
  - jglauche 10y ago
    First of all, it's not that infrequently, if you add checking your bank account. That's one thing you do way more often if you are (self-)employed. Problem is, seeing my old name might, if I'm in a very good mood not do anything, or if I'm in a not so good mood dig up/trigger my emotional trauma that sits deep inside of me. You couldn't understand how it feels like, assuming you're a cis person. Trying to reason with logic does not work, this is an emotional issue. And it won't go away until I have eliminated the source of this problem. In addition, taking female hormones do make emotional issues more... intense.

cstejerean 10y ago

I have no idea what the laws are in Germany for contracting, but would it be possible to open up your own company and freelance through that? That way clients should should only have to deal with the business name not your personal name. This is relatively easy to do in the US, not sure about Germany though.

jglauche 10y ago
If you have a business in Germany, they require you do use your name on your passport. They require the name of the director on an "imprint" page on your website. Plus, obviously the costs of going to the notary when my name change goes through.

Frompo 10y ago

What? Do you have to go to a judge if you want to change your name in general, or is there a special law that say that if you change your name to something differently gendered you need a judge? I have a trans friend and the biggest name related problem E. had was getting a new user account at work (as far as I know anyway).

germanier 10y ago
Changing your name in general is not easy in Germany. There is a short list of allowed reasons for doing so, each with its own process. Reasons would be things like: Marriage, gender change (in Germany at least one for your first names needs to indicate your gender), unfortunate or funny name, or at naturalization to make your name more German-sounding. Outside of that it's almost impossible to change your name.
- eru 10y ago
  However, getting a stage name or artist pseudonym recognized is relatively easy. (But probably wouldn't help a transgender person feel better.)

eru 10y ago

By the way, I always wondered how Germany treats name changes in other countries. I grew up in Germany. I live overseas now. I could change my name here relatively easily, I think. I wonder how hard it would be to get that recognized back in Germany.