10 ms·

I'm currently on welfare in mid-sized city in Germany and can say that it's definitely possible to stay alive as long as you stay the obedient slave of the Jobc

I'm currently on welfare in mid-sized city in Germany and can say that it's definitely possible to stay alive as long as you stay the obedient slave of the Jobcenter. What does suck is when something breaks. Your computer, your car, something bigger in your house. Expensive hardware parts are really hard to save money for. I have to say, the Jobcenter is the worst employer ever. They don't require my presence most of the time, yet I can't plan in leaving the city unless on very short notice, as they require me to ask for "vacation" one week before. Soo.. I can save a little money to fly somewhere, book in advance and then I ask them one week before I'm going and they can decline! I hope to get out of this, the sooner the better. Sadly, it's not the jobs that are lacking, it's discrimination by law in my case.

bobwaycott 10y ago
> Sadly, it's not the jobs that are lacking, it's discrimination by law in my case. At the risk of making a too personal inquiry, what discrimination by law are you referring to here?
- jglauche 10y ago
  Germany has a Transsexual law from 1987. Currently I'm undergoing the name change process, since all paperwork has to go under my old name (who is this guy?? Why do I have to sign for someone else?). They won't even change my bank account name, which would be a start (I've been a customer with them for over 20 years and they don't trust me and my "transgender passport"). So, currently, a judge is deciding on my fate on this. I've done their interrogation, visited two psychologists now and one of the letters has some crap written in it, which might, at worst case trap me another 1 1/2 years in this situation. Without the legal name change done, work life is limited: - I have to tell any employer my old name - If I start/join a startup, I have to use my old name. Plus it'll cost lots of money to change it once my name change process succeeds. - If I want to do freelancing, they want my old name for all paperworks. Then the thing with my bank account.. Using my old name is discouraging to any job I do. Also not being treated as an adult who can make their own life choices is highly discouraging.
  - bobwaycott 10y ago
    Holy shit. I'm so sorry. I can't even begin to imagine what hell this must be. Is there no hope for change of the laws and how society deals with this?
    - jglauche 10y ago
      The changing of the law is long overdue. Parts of it have been nullified by the highest German court in 2011 already. The conservatives probably won't do anything unless the EU forces Germany to update their laws. Society is fine with it, with very few exceptions. As long as I don't include the right winged xenophobic/islamophobic idiots to society. Unfortunately they've gained a lot of strength lately.
    - DasIch 10y ago
      The problem here is quite similar to the issue of marriage for all. Technically there is (probably) a majority for it but the CDU which is currently in government is against it. Additionally there are other issues that are considered more important either because they're more popular or affect more people, so the SPD isn't willing to burn political capital. Given the current political situation in Germany and more broadly in Europe, there won't be any policy change in this legislative period or the next, so at least ~5 years. In fact there is a risk the situation might get worse in the next legislative period. Hard to predict what will happen beyond that, a lot can happen in that timeframe, Merkel will probably retire and the political landscape could shift drastically in response.
  - aninhumer 10y ago
    So I have no experience of this, and I'm perhaps being insensitive but... Would it not have been possible to continue using your old name for legal purposes, and just use your new name in all other contexts? I can certainly imagine various downsides of doing so, but if the name change process is that onerous, perhaps it might still have been better overall?
    - jglauche 10y ago
      I'd never get anything done. The feeling is quite hard to explain to cis people. But I'll try anyway. So you're trapped in a life that you don't want to live in. You've been trapped in there for too long. When you finally step out, you need to fight your outside world. But despite doing the right things and hurting nobody in the process, some of the outside world fights against you. You hate it. You feel patronized every time that happens. You're not the free person anymore that you used to be. [This might be possible to deal with for some other trans people. Some have both boy and girl mode where they switch. My mind is not up to that because one side of it is a lie]
vacri 10y ago
... not being able to fly somewhere because of red tape is not a complaint I usually hear from people complaining about being poor...
- krisdol 10y ago
  When we were refugees in Germany, my parents felt stuck in a tiny town with few jobs because the job center made mobility out of the place you "landed in" extremely difficult. Being able to travel and move about the country freely can make a big difference economically. By the time we moved to a different place Germany decided to kick out every refugee, and in the meantime made rules requiring jobs go to natives first, if one is applying, and refugees second. So in the end it didn't matter that we didn't live in a big city because everyone got the boot. We weren't terribly poor, not average certainly, but it was more of a struggle than it should have been. In the US, on the other hand, they barely spent any time on government assistance because they moved upwards professionally, got compensated well, became citizens, bought a house, and funny enough sold it and bought couple more in Germany.
  - allendoerfer 10y ago
    >and in the meantime made rules requiring jobs go to natives first, if one is applying, and refugees second Do you have a citation for this one?
    - krisdol 10y ago
      https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/07/bos-j16.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/07/bos-j16.html >As early as the end of September 1997 the employment offices were given instructions to systematically withdraw the work permits for Bosnians. Thousands of Bosnians, many of whom had worked in Germany for years, received duplicated forms, in generally restrained wording, notifying them that the employment centres had to first check whether there was a German available for the job.
      - allendoerfer 10y ago
mablap 10y ago
What kind of welfare/poor are we talking about here? How much money do you make in a month on welfare?
- jglauche 10y ago
  It's called Arbeitslosengeld II and I'm getting rent paid + 404€ for my life per month.
golergka 10y ago
> on welfare > Your computer, your car > your house > I can save a little money to fly somewhere Being poor in Germany certainly sounds different from being poor in other countries.
- jglauche 10y ago
  I'm by far not a measure of the bottom of the poor. I don't have kids (as single mother), I'm not addicted to alcohol or substances, I can manage my money well and I'm intelligent. That filters out a lot of the risk factors for real poverty. Also: I don't have any debt that needs to be paid off! So many people have, and it's easy to fall into debt. It's easy to mess it up though. If you don't show up to appointments to the Jobcenter, they will give you less money. Suddenly you get 90% of the benefits (which is measured as minimum amount of money you need to survive per month). Do it again and you get only 60% for multiple months. Do it again, 30%. Still not showing up? They throw you out, including rent payments and health insurance. Again, while I'm considered poor in the statistics, I'm not part of the group that's at risk of ending up without any benefits money or be homeless. My city of about 260k population has over 900 homeless people according to the friendly volunteers of a homeless shelter. I know that because we sometimes bring food over to those places, if they're happy to accept it (not all of them do). That happens because I'm responsible for my town @ https://foodsharing.de/ https://foodsharing.de/ - we rescue food from supermarkets that they'd throw into the bin otherwise. While being active there saves me some good cost of living, the amounts of food are huge and we have to distribute it too, mainly to homeless shelters in town.

bobwaycott 10y ago

> Sadly, it's not the jobs that are lacking, it's discrimination by law in my case. At the risk of making a too personal inquiry, what discrimination by law are you referring to here?

jglauche 10y ago
Germany has a Transsexual law from 1987. Currently I'm undergoing the name change process, since all paperwork has to go under my old name (who is this guy?? Why do I have to sign for someone else?). They won't even change my bank account name, which would be a start (I've been a customer with them for over 20 years and they don't trust me and my "transgender passport"). So, currently, a judge is deciding on my fate on this. I've done their interrogation, visited two psychologists now and one of the letters has some crap written in it, which might, at worst case trap me another 1 1/2 years in this situation. Without the legal name change done, work life is limited: - I have to tell any employer my old name - If I start/join a startup, I have to use my old name. Plus it'll cost lots of money to change it once my name change process succeeds. - If I want to do freelancing, they want my old name for all paperworks. Then the thing with my bank account.. Using my old name is discouraging to any job I do. Also not being treated as an adult who can make their own life choices is highly discouraging.
- bobwaycott 10y ago
  Holy shit. I'm so sorry. I can't even begin to imagine what hell this must be. Is there no hope for change of the laws and how society deals with this?
  - jglauche 10y ago
    The changing of the law is long overdue. Parts of it have been nullified by the highest German court in 2011 already. The conservatives probably won't do anything unless the EU forces Germany to update their laws. Society is fine with it, with very few exceptions. As long as I don't include the right winged xenophobic/islamophobic idiots to society. Unfortunately they've gained a lot of strength lately.
  - DasIch 10y ago
    The problem here is quite similar to the issue of marriage for all. Technically there is (probably) a majority for it but the CDU which is currently in government is against it. Additionally there are other issues that are considered more important either because they're more popular or affect more people, so the SPD isn't willing to burn political capital. Given the current political situation in Germany and more broadly in Europe, there won't be any policy change in this legislative period or the next, so at least ~5 years. In fact there is a risk the situation might get worse in the next legislative period. Hard to predict what will happen beyond that, a lot can happen in that timeframe, Merkel will probably retire and the political landscape could shift drastically in response.
- aninhumer 10y ago
  So I have no experience of this, and I'm perhaps being insensitive but... Would it not have been possible to continue using your old name for legal purposes, and just use your new name in all other contexts? I can certainly imagine various downsides of doing so, but if the name change process is that onerous, perhaps it might still have been better overall?
  - jglauche 10y ago
    I'd never get anything done. The feeling is quite hard to explain to cis people. But I'll try anyway. So you're trapped in a life that you don't want to live in. You've been trapped in there for too long. When you finally step out, you need to fight your outside world. But despite doing the right things and hurting nobody in the process, some of the outside world fights against you. You hate it. You feel patronized every time that happens. You're not the free person anymore that you used to be. [This might be possible to deal with for some other trans people. Some have both boy and girl mode where they switch. My mind is not up to that because one side of it is a lie]

vacri 10y ago

... not being able to fly somewhere because of red tape is not a complaint I usually hear from people complaining about being poor...

krisdol 10y ago
When we were refugees in Germany, my parents felt stuck in a tiny town with few jobs because the job center made mobility out of the place you "landed in" extremely difficult. Being able to travel and move about the country freely can make a big difference economically. By the time we moved to a different place Germany decided to kick out every refugee, and in the meantime made rules requiring jobs go to natives first, if one is applying, and refugees second. So in the end it didn't matter that we didn't live in a big city because everyone got the boot. We weren't terribly poor, not average certainly, but it was more of a struggle than it should have been. In the US, on the other hand, they barely spent any time on government assistance because they moved upwards professionally, got compensated well, became citizens, bought a house, and funny enough sold it and bought couple more in Germany.
- allendoerfer 10y ago
  >and in the meantime made rules requiring jobs go to natives first, if one is applying, and refugees second Do you have a citation for this one?
  - krisdol 10y ago
    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/07/bos-j16.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/07/bos-j16.html >As early as the end of September 1997 the employment offices were given instructions to systematically withdraw the work permits for Bosnians. Thousands of Bosnians, many of whom had worked in Germany for years, received duplicated forms, in generally restrained wording, notifying them that the employment centres had to first check whether there was a German available for the job.
    - allendoerfer 10y ago

mablap 10y ago

What kind of welfare/poor are we talking about here? How much money do you make in a month on welfare?

jglauche 10y ago
It's called Arbeitslosengeld II and I'm getting rent paid + 404€ for my life per month.

golergka 10y ago

> on welfare > Your computer, your car > your house > I can save a little money to fly somewhere Being poor in Germany certainly sounds different from being poor in other countries.

jglauche 10y ago
I'm by far not a measure of the bottom of the poor. I don't have kids (as single mother), I'm not addicted to alcohol or substances, I can manage my money well and I'm intelligent. That filters out a lot of the risk factors for real poverty. Also: I don't have any debt that needs to be paid off! So many people have, and it's easy to fall into debt. It's easy to mess it up though. If you don't show up to appointments to the Jobcenter, they will give you less money. Suddenly you get 90% of the benefits (which is measured as minimum amount of money you need to survive per month). Do it again and you get only 60% for multiple months. Do it again, 30%. Still not showing up? They throw you out, including rent payments and health insurance. Again, while I'm considered poor in the statistics, I'm not part of the group that's at risk of ending up without any benefits money or be homeless. My city of about 260k population has over 900 homeless people according to the friendly volunteers of a homeless shelter. I know that because we sometimes bring food over to those places, if they're happy to accept it (not all of them do). That happens because I'm responsible for my town @ https://foodsharing.de/ https://foodsharing.de/ - we rescue food from supermarkets that they'd throw into the bin otherwise. While being active there saves me some good cost of living, the amounts of food are huge and we have to distribute it too, mainly to homeless shelters in town.