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I don't believe anything prevents a seller from honestly producing,marketing and selling GMO free foods. However, demanding that the rest of the world participa

I don't believe anything prevents a seller from honestly producing,marketing and selling GMO free foods. However, demanding that the rest of the world participate in their marketing scheme is silly. Similarly you can put "contains no functional programming" on your software if you like. But it's unreasonable to insist that I put "warning: free monads" on mine, particularly if it's logistically difficult and expensive (as it would be with both FP and GMO) to actually determine the truth. Also, I suppose corn, tomato, potato, peppers and most other selectively bred crops are can never have the "non-GMO" label?

danbruc 10y ago
I am from Europe and here it is mandatory to label products produced with GMOs with some exceptions like meat from animals fed with GMOs. It is not the case that a handful people demanded that, it is a nonnegligible fraction of the population. And you software example. There are scenarios where certain certifications are required, some with respect to functionality, some with respect to the process the software was build with. For example US companies had to adhere to the Safe Harbor rules if they wanted to offer services in the European Union and they probably had to declare that in the terms of service.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Suppose a non-negligible fraction of the population demands Islamic, Hindu or Christian food. Should that also be labelled according to some law (rather than the current voluntary label system)? Certifications for software are a very different thing because they are based on actual safety and functionality, not a faith-based preference.
  - danbruc 10y ago
    Why not? Consumers have a right to know what they eat. If half the population really wants to know whether products adhere to some religious practices, then so be it, print it on the box. In some cases businesses will voluntary do such things because they see it as beneficial, in some cases they won't and then you have to make into a law. I guess in your example with the religions they would do so voluntarily because what are the downsides? In case of GMOs they won't because they - probably rightly - fear reduced sales and so we need a law. And faith and objectivity, that may be a thin line. What about vegetarians and vegans? And even in case of GMOs there is still a small but non-zero risk of adverse (long-term) effects.
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      Just like halal and kosher food makers, non-GMO food makers can include it on the box. As a vegetarian myself, I assume food which doesn't disclose itself as being veg is not - particularly when outside of India. I don't feel it is the responsibility of the rest of the world to accommodate my personal tastes.
      - danbruc 10y ago
        If everyone would label their non-GMO products that would maybe do, but what stops companies from putting non-GMO labels on GMO products if it is not enforced by some law? It also seems a bit backwards, why would one label all non-GMO products if one want's to know which products contain GMOs? That's a bit like labeling everything without honey as honey-free and not labeling honey and products containing honey. And we were already there - it is not you but a nonnegligible fraction of the population.
        yummyfajitas 10y ago
        No one is opposed to requiring non-GMO labels to be accurate, just like all other advertising. What's being discussed here is simply requiring Joe's Corn & Pork to put "non-Halal, non-Kosher, yay GMO" on their label. I.e., forcing Joe to participate in someone else's marketing scheme.
        danbruc 10y ago
        It is not a marketing scheme, it is customer information just like the usual ingredients labels. As I said in another comment, declaring what is in a product should really be the norm, GMO labeling opponents should justify why it is okay or better to hide this information from customers.
        yummyfajitas 10y ago
        It's very simple. Food ingredients are on the label for safety reasons. There are no measurable safety effects of GMO, Halal, etc. What criteria do you use to determine if a property should be on a label? Should foods with homosexuals or muslims involved in production also get a warning label? If not, why not? Or do you believe every random bias of consumers is something that every possible producer must account for?
  - belorn 10y ago
    If there isn't already a law to identify when a animal was slaughted in a ritual manner, I would not be against it. Its the same as letting the consumer know that the eggs are from free range hens.

danbruc 10y ago

I am from Europe and here it is mandatory to label products produced with GMOs with some exceptions like meat from animals fed with GMOs. It is not the case that a handful people demanded that, it is a nonnegligible fraction of the population. And you software example. There are scenarios where certain certifications are required, some with respect to functionality, some with respect to the process the software was build with. For example US companies had to adhere to the Safe Harbor rules if they wanted to offer services in the European Union and they probably had to declare that in the terms of service.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
Suppose a non-negligible fraction of the population demands Islamic, Hindu or Christian food. Should that also be labelled according to some law (rather than the current voluntary label system)? Certifications for software are a very different thing because they are based on actual safety and functionality, not a faith-based preference.
- danbruc 10y ago
  Why not? Consumers have a right to know what they eat. If half the population really wants to know whether products adhere to some religious practices, then so be it, print it on the box. In some cases businesses will voluntary do such things because they see it as beneficial, in some cases they won't and then you have to make into a law. I guess in your example with the religions they would do so voluntarily because what are the downsides? In case of GMOs they won't because they - probably rightly - fear reduced sales and so we need a law. And faith and objectivity, that may be a thin line. What about vegetarians and vegans? And even in case of GMOs there is still a small but non-zero risk of adverse (long-term) effects.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Just like halal and kosher food makers, non-GMO food makers can include it on the box. As a vegetarian myself, I assume food which doesn't disclose itself as being veg is not - particularly when outside of India. I don't feel it is the responsibility of the rest of the world to accommodate my personal tastes.
    - danbruc 10y ago
      If everyone would label their non-GMO products that would maybe do, but what stops companies from putting non-GMO labels on GMO products if it is not enforced by some law? It also seems a bit backwards, why would one label all non-GMO products if one want's to know which products contain GMOs? That's a bit like labeling everything without honey as honey-free and not labeling honey and products containing honey. And we were already there - it is not you but a nonnegligible fraction of the population.
      - yummyfajitas 10y ago
        No one is opposed to requiring non-GMO labels to be accurate, just like all other advertising. What's being discussed here is simply requiring Joe's Corn & Pork to put "non-Halal, non-Kosher, yay GMO" on their label. I.e., forcing Joe to participate in someone else's marketing scheme.
        danbruc 10y ago
        It is not a marketing scheme, it is customer information just like the usual ingredients labels. As I said in another comment, declaring what is in a product should really be the norm, GMO labeling opponents should justify why it is okay or better to hide this information from customers.
        yummyfajitas 10y ago
        It's very simple. Food ingredients are on the label for safety reasons. There are no measurable safety effects of GMO, Halal, etc. What criteria do you use to determine if a property should be on a label? Should foods with homosexuals or muslims involved in production also get a warning label? If not, why not? Or do you believe every random bias of consumers is something that every possible producer must account for?
- belorn 10y ago
  If there isn't already a law to identify when a animal was slaughted in a ritual manner, I would not be against it. Its the same as letting the consumer know that the eggs are from free range hens.