4 ms·

In no way could a phony e-mail address (or any other string, for that matter) tied to a disposable keypair be construed as identity fraud. That would be like cl

by hbosch 10y ago

In no way could a phony e-mail address (or any other string, for that matter) tied to a disposable keypair be construed as identity fraud. That would be like claiming "identity fraud" for telling the barista at Starbucks your name is Abraham Lincoln.

duaneb 10y ago
The disposable key pair IS an identity in this case. I dunno about the legal end, but it's hardly the same as giving a name to a barista.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  It's the same. You claimed you had a specific identity. From there, one might look at the specific identity, the evidence behind the claim, and any specific laws. Far as government employees, just claiming to be one might be enough to get you charged. I don't know the case law on it, though, so there could be nuances that protects you in some situations. Note: An example would be doing it in a fictional movie. I'm sure that's safe as the claim is clearly BS.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - vonklaus 10y ago
    hahaha i am not 100% sure. However, in terms of starbucks, you could probably respond with, write Abraham Lincoln, on my cup. Thus what you have said is technicaly simply a command but not a claim.
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      "But, Mr Vonklaus, isn't it true that issuing a command that implicitly creates an idenfity itself an act of identification? Or did you expect us to believe they delivered it to Abe Lincoln himself?!"
    - theoh 10y ago
      The theory of "speech acts" goes into this kind of question. In certain contexts, merely saying something does amount to an action. Marriage vows are a familiar example.
matt-attack 10y ago
I actually think it's courteous to baristas to use a made up very short, easy to spell name, e.g., Al, Ed, etc.
- jackgavigan 10y ago
  I use Batman.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    I use Tupac. The results I get in mostly-black, fast-food places would probably interest many sociologists. ;)
    - Bromskloss 10y ago
      If you don't mind, it would interest me too.
      - nickpsecurity 10y ago
        Well, I haven't been systematically documenting it or anything. I have some off the top of my head. You have to remember the geographical context. I stay in and around Memphis, TN metro area. We have lots of whites, blacks, and hispanics over here. There's long history of racism. Certain areas are dominated by minorities instead of "majority." We grow up in school hearing everyone's bullshit instead of just one side. So, some toe the party line for their race while others counter it. Quite diverse opinions here vs what you might see on sites with liberal bent like here. So, here's a few reactions to me putting Tupac on a receipt and a black person having to call it out: 1. Whole room goes silent with whispering and lots of quick, hateful glances my way. 2. Cynicism, with or without voicing it, along the lines of "stupid white guy doing something we don't even pay attention to." 3. Questioning why I used Tupac. I explain he's one of my favorite rappers for unusual wisdom and occasionally devoting songs to doing good in the world. Better than today's idols. This results in total agreement given it's perceived as a tribute to black (or just human) icon. Or uneasy approval where I'm doing it for right reasons but they're still not comfortable with white adopting black culture. Or rejection outright given it's "just wrong" for white person to "take black peoples' shit." 4. Laughter. This might be cynical type where they try to mock me back as I appear to be stirring shit up among races. This might be genuine where they just think it's funny. One guy put on a show asking about where I was touring and wanting an autograph. I played the part without using black language to keep it more genuine on my part. Everyone had fun. My personal favorite. 5. Refusal to serve me. I could've fought it but I just left. This happens anyway in some of the black establishments where they'll come up with an excuse to serve whites last ("we're cleaning... until a black person comes through") or try to make them uncomfortable enough to never return. So, it doesn't bother me given there's alternatives. 6. Shouting and screaming. The blacks start by telling us it isn't right. They mob up in a crowd. They shout insults. They make threats. They tie in all kinds of white, negative stereotypes their parents and media taught them. They make references to the past. The goal is to get white targets to cower in front of them admitting their ideas are truth and whites are scum. They also want the whites to leave along the way. 6. Certain parts, aka The Hood, have people that will attack and try to kill me if I do this. They'll do that to whites and black alike anyway with certain probability. For risk/reward reasons, I very rarely pull a stunt there since they're quite irrational and violent in my hoods past what you would expect. I've seen situations quite like this [1] plenty of times. "Squeeze it, nigga!" at gunpoint is in fact what one said. One holds them off by standing ground, winning initial skirmish while breaking away from encircling crowd, drawing weapon, making right threats while backing out, letting them feel important, and simply never returning. Helps to have backup in case they plan to shoot your house up later. Think why I don't do this more often is obvious now, eh? ;) So, there's a quick summary off top of head of different reactions I get in Memphis area using Tupac name in food places or anywhere else. Shows the situation isn't as clear cut as either liberals or right-wingers act. The reactions show many different perspectives among blacks about race issues, esp white uptake of black culture or similarities in our experiences of oppression. It also shows that some have negative reactions that are identical to what blacks experienced in mostly white and hateful [to blacks] areas. Shows that racism is not a white-only or white-on-black thing: it's human nature of how groups react to different groups that all people must be aware of to spot and eliminate hateful behavior. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuYd9pA8LIY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuYd9pA8LIY

by hbosch 10y ago

duaneb 10y ago

The disposable key pair IS an identity in this case. I dunno about the legal end, but it's hardly the same as giving a name to a barista.

nickpsecurity 10y ago
It's the same. You claimed you had a specific identity. From there, one might look at the specific identity, the evidence behind the claim, and any specific laws. Far as government employees, just claiming to be one might be enough to get you charged. I don't know the case law on it, though, so there could be nuances that protects you in some situations. Note: An example would be doing it in a fictional movie. I'm sure that's safe as the claim is clearly BS.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- vonklaus 10y ago
  hahaha i am not 100% sure. However, in terms of starbucks, you could probably respond with, write Abraham Lincoln, on my cup. Thus what you have said is technicaly simply a command but not a claim.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    "But, Mr Vonklaus, isn't it true that issuing a command that implicitly creates an idenfity itself an act of identification? Or did you expect us to believe they delivered it to Abe Lincoln himself?!"
  - theoh 10y ago
    The theory of "speech acts" goes into this kind of question. In certain contexts, merely saying something does amount to an action. Marriage vows are a familiar example.

matt-attack 10y ago

I actually think it's courteous to baristas to use a made up very short, easy to spell name, e.g., Al, Ed, etc.

jackgavigan 10y ago
I use Batman.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  I use Tupac. The results I get in mostly-black, fast-food places would probably interest many sociologists. ;)
  - Bromskloss 10y ago
    If you don't mind, it would interest me too.
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      Well, I haven't been systematically documenting it or anything. I have some off the top of my head. You have to remember the geographical context. I stay in and around Memphis, TN metro area. We have lots of whites, blacks, and hispanics over here. There's long history of racism. Certain areas are dominated by minorities instead of "majority." We grow up in school hearing everyone's bullshit instead of just one side. So, some toe the party line for their race while others counter it. Quite diverse opinions here vs what you might see on sites with liberal bent like here. So, here's a few reactions to me putting Tupac on a receipt and a black person having to call it out: 1. Whole room goes silent with whispering and lots of quick, hateful glances my way. 2. Cynicism, with or without voicing it, along the lines of "stupid white guy doing something we don't even pay attention to." 3. Questioning why I used Tupac. I explain he's one of my favorite rappers for unusual wisdom and occasionally devoting songs to doing good in the world. Better than today's idols. This results in total agreement given it's perceived as a tribute to black (or just human) icon. Or uneasy approval where I'm doing it for right reasons but they're still not comfortable with white adopting black culture. Or rejection outright given it's "just wrong" for white person to "take black peoples' shit." 4. Laughter. This might be cynical type where they try to mock me back as I appear to be stirring shit up among races. This might be genuine where they just think it's funny. One guy put on a show asking about where I was touring and wanting an autograph. I played the part without using black language to keep it more genuine on my part. Everyone had fun. My personal favorite. 5. Refusal to serve me. I could've fought it but I just left. This happens anyway in some of the black establishments where they'll come up with an excuse to serve whites last ("we're cleaning... until a black person comes through") or try to make them uncomfortable enough to never return. So, it doesn't bother me given there's alternatives. 6. Shouting and screaming. The blacks start by telling us it isn't right. They mob up in a crowd. They shout insults. They make threats. They tie in all kinds of white, negative stereotypes their parents and media taught them. They make references to the past. The goal is to get white targets to cower in front of them admitting their ideas are truth and whites are scum. They also want the whites to leave along the way. 6. Certain parts, aka The Hood, have people that will attack and try to kill me if I do this. They'll do that to whites and black alike anyway with certain probability. For risk/reward reasons, I very rarely pull a stunt there since they're quite irrational and violent in my hoods past what you would expect. I've seen situations quite like this [1] plenty of times. "Squeeze it, nigga!" at gunpoint is in fact what one said. One holds them off by standing ground, winning initial skirmish while breaking away from encircling crowd, drawing weapon, making right threats while backing out, letting them feel important, and simply never returning. Helps to have backup in case they plan to shoot your house up later. Think why I don't do this more often is obvious now, eh? ;) So, there's a quick summary off top of head of different reactions I get in Memphis area using Tupac name in food places or anywhere else. Shows the situation isn't as clear cut as either liberals or right-wingers act. The reactions show many different perspectives among blacks about race issues, esp white uptake of black culture or similarities in our experiences of oppression. It also shows that some have negative reactions that are identical to what blacks experienced in mostly white and hateful [to blacks] areas. Shows that racism is not a white-only or white-on-black thing: it's human nature of how groups react to different groups that all people must be aware of to spot and eliminate hateful behavior. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuYd9pA8LIY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuYd9pA8LIY