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Though keeping in mind that solid state semiconductor physics is based heavily in quantum mechanics which probably wasn't 'sufficient' & more widely accepted un

by j1vms 10y ago

Though keeping in mind that solid state semiconductor physics is based heavily in quantum mechanics which probably wasn't 'sufficient' & more widely accepted until the late 1920s or 1930s, the earliest the transistor could have been invented was just pre-WW2. We were really quite far off from QM for most of the 19th century.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Everything depends on QM, but you don't have to understand that to make use of it. Just laying out massive circuits on film would have made computation possible a century earlier?
- j1vms 10y ago
  For example, the distances between source and drain in a transistor are based on factors like electron/hole mobility, minority carrier recombination in the gate, which are probabilistic and can be calculated using equations which would only have been known through quantum physics. Without QM, the challenge would be akin to reliably building a skyscraper in the Middle Ages (prior to Newtonian physics). Of course, that is why the pyramids are Wonders of the World, though we are able to see the Egyptians had some of the necessary mathematics and understanding of physics for that.
  - schoen 10y ago
    Can you discover appropriate distances by trial and error without having a good theory that predicts them from first principles?
    - j1vms 10y ago
      If someone were to provide you with variously doped n-type, p-type semiconductor, with enough time you could make a transistor by trial and error. The key I guess is that you probably wouldn't have considered using (or even had for that matter) n-/p-type material unless you had a background in solid state physics in an industrial lab in the 1940s (i.e. everyone associated with Shockley). But at that point, and being in such an organization, wisely you'd be inclined to work out the math & science first on blackboards, and thus economize your limited person-hours and R&D budget. As an aside, and probably the main reason no one would ever have created a transistor or even IC in the 19th century or earlier is because, they really didn't need one yet. A transistor controls electricity (in a circuit) using electricity (from another ideally isolated circuit). In the 19th century, mechanical relays existed which controlled electricity using mechanical means (which could in turn have been controlled by electricity). This was "good enough" for most applications. There was not yet any large-scale telecommunication system (requiring better low-noise, low-power signal amplification), large populations within nation-states (requiring high speed digital data processing by corporations & governments), or potential for world wars that could destroy the planet many times over (requiring data secrecy and cryptanalysis by nations only fighting in proxy aka Cold Wars). These were 20th century and, remain at this point, 21st century concerns that benefitted from, and in some cases sadly, were enabled by the transistor.
- bashinator 10y ago
  OP here - my original idea was that in the mid-late 1800s we could have had binary computers made from telegraph relays as switches, not solid-state transistors. The relays I believe are still many orders of magnitude more reliable than vacuum tubes, and probably easier to make more reliable for large-scale provisioning.

by j1vms 10y ago

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

Everything depends on QM, but you don't have to understand that to make use of it. Just laying out massive circuits on film would have made computation possible a century earlier?

j1vms 10y ago
For example, the distances between source and drain in a transistor are based on factors like electron/hole mobility, minority carrier recombination in the gate, which are probabilistic and can be calculated using equations which would only have been known through quantum physics. Without QM, the challenge would be akin to reliably building a skyscraper in the Middle Ages (prior to Newtonian physics). Of course, that is why the pyramids are Wonders of the World, though we are able to see the Egyptians had some of the necessary mathematics and understanding of physics for that.
- schoen 10y ago
  Can you discover appropriate distances by trial and error without having a good theory that predicts them from first principles?
  - j1vms 10y ago
    If someone were to provide you with variously doped n-type, p-type semiconductor, with enough time you could make a transistor by trial and error. The key I guess is that you probably wouldn't have considered using (or even had for that matter) n-/p-type material unless you had a background in solid state physics in an industrial lab in the 1940s (i.e. everyone associated with Shockley). But at that point, and being in such an organization, wisely you'd be inclined to work out the math & science first on blackboards, and thus economize your limited person-hours and R&D budget. As an aside, and probably the main reason no one would ever have created a transistor or even IC in the 19th century or earlier is because, they really didn't need one yet. A transistor controls electricity (in a circuit) using electricity (from another ideally isolated circuit). In the 19th century, mechanical relays existed which controlled electricity using mechanical means (which could in turn have been controlled by electricity). This was "good enough" for most applications. There was not yet any large-scale telecommunication system (requiring better low-noise, low-power signal amplification), large populations within nation-states (requiring high speed digital data processing by corporations & governments), or potential for world wars that could destroy the planet many times over (requiring data secrecy and cryptanalysis by nations only fighting in proxy aka Cold Wars). These were 20th century and, remain at this point, 21st century concerns that benefitted from, and in some cases sadly, were enabled by the transistor.
bashinator 10y ago
OP here - my original idea was that in the mid-late 1800s we could have had binary computers made from telegraph relays as switches, not solid-state transistors. The relays I believe are still many orders of magnitude more reliable than vacuum tubes, and probably easier to make more reliable for large-scale provisioning.