5 ms·

Excited to see Lua here, I feel it complements C very well for desktop scripting. I was just browsing yesterday for some sci-fi desktop interfaces [0, 1]. [0]

by crudbug 10y ago

Excited to see Lua here, I feel it complements C very well for desktop scripting. I was just browsing yesterday for some sci-fi desktop interfaces [0, 1]. [0] http://nnkd.org/dexui/ http://nnkd.org/dexui/ [1] http://sciencefictioninterfaces.tumblr.com http://sciencefictioninterfaces.tumblr.com

crazyloglad 10y ago
like the dexui look and feel, hmm, that would be about an all nighter with my all-rush mixtape and a two litre bottle of shasta..
- i336_ 10y ago
  Okay, I'll bite... what would this all-rush mixtape look (sound) like? I'm curious. :P And I would describe Arcan et. al. as a whole as curiously interesting. The only thing I know of like it is PicoGUI, a 2000-era display manager that could go as low as 1bpp on a ~20MHz 68k running uClinux (specifically this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/micahdowty/albums/72157627032507669 https://www.flickr.com/photos/micahdowty/albums/721576270325...), while also being able to handle 24bpp and even some bits of OpenGL. It was abandoned in 2003, and the author did a writeup of the worst of the design fails (some were... notable) at http://picogui.org/papers/ghost-of-picogui-past.html http://picogui.org/papers/ghost-of-picogui-past.html. While I would firmly categorize PGUI as a subset of your work, I thought I'd mention it because I think it tried to reach similar goals to what you've done, and you may potentially find the source code vaguely interesting to scavenge through on a rainy day (although it might take eg a Debian 4 VM to build cleanly without fuss). http://svn.navi.cx/picogui/trunk/ http://svn.navi.cx/picogui/trunk/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/pgui/files/picogui/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/pgui/files/picogui/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/pgui/files/OldFiles/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/pgui/files/OldFiles/ (hidden directory I found?) I have no idea if this will be interesting, I figured I'd mention it just in case.
  - crazyloglad 10y ago
    Futurama reference ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmCqn-DNSA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmCqn-DNSA0 though apparently popular enough that some people have made all-rush playlists ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsKBIBJj-4M&list=PL8BF75E7F0B3888C3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsKBIBJj-4M&list=PL8BF75E7F0... ) On-topic - definitely a cool project and one that I haven't heard about actually, added to my queue of weekly source-code readings. I'd also consider DirectFB similar, and another project that I just have in my vaguest of memories (think they used a project-name like Cairo that got google-CVed out of existence from the more recent one) from the 2001-02ish era. They tried to attack X back then, but fell victims to the driver situation (but they had arbitrarily rotated windows!). One of my stronger personal influences is BeOS though - Compare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O40cPUqLbU&feature=youtu.be&t=2m33s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O40cPUqLbU&feature=youtu.be... :)
    - i336_ 10y ago
      Ahh... I don't watch any^H^H^Henough TV. :P I've been meaning to poke around PicoGUI myself - I personally love stuff that's tiny and efficient, always looking out for things like that. (I just found a bunch of old versions of Contiki, the ones with the GUI stack; the non-broken ones were fun to play with: http://hitmen.c02.at/html/tools_contiki.html http://hitmen.c02.at/html/tools_contiki.html) Very cool to hear I recommended something relevant! ^^ I've heard of DirectFB, but my understanding is that it just tames framebuffers, as opposed to dealing with everything below the toolkit level. I don't recall anything called Cairo myself, but as for attacking X I do vaguely recall a company that made a closed-source alternate Linux display stack+desktop environment; it was very rudimentary and went nowhere because of that. I like BeOS too. I keep meaning to install it (and OS/2... and QNX... and...), just preferably on real hardware. I have a bunch of old stuff hanging around here that I hope to use once I have a little file server and I can free up my dozens of old HDDs :P And your video (I watched the other one in 2008 :D still remember it) was really awesome, and led to git cloning and compila--"wait it's done already?! Nice." Now my main request is, please update the documentation on GitHub (particularly the quickstart instructions) so we all aren't stuck with just welcome.lua (which I initially thought was a builtin options screen then double-checked to see if I'd specified the args wrong, lol). I (and probably everyone else) want(s) to play with the stuff you're demoing in your videos! Another tiny thing I'd mention about the video (it was the first thing I noticed actually) was that it would be a) awesome to watch and b) a great demo of your engine's graphics pipeline performance, if you have the media player update its graph at like 60fps. Or at least 24fps. Just a thought. For my favorite reference of what fast VU looks like, I recommend rezound (http://rezound.sf.net/ http://rezound.sf.net/) - run it once, then edit ~/.rezound/registry.dat and set meterUpdateTime (in Meters {}) to something like 4 (it's a delay in microseconds I think, 4 is nice and doesn't flood X with updates too fast on my machine). The weird knob thing to the right of the VU (very bottom-right) adjusts the frequency response. Another possible source of fast VU updates is the Linux port of Open Cubic Player (http://stian.cubic.org/project-ocp.php http://stian.cubic.org/project-ocp.php) - alt+c, set framerate to 60 or 120fps, set font to 4x4 (after loading music :D), and the result there looks nice, too - although it responds best (for me) with a non-fullscreen window. (This one's a bit of a project to learn all the shortcuts for, IMO.)

by crudbug 10y ago

crazyloglad 10y ago

like the dexui look and feel, hmm, that would be about an all nighter with my all-rush mixtape and a two litre bottle of shasta..

i336_ 10y ago
Okay, I'll bite... what would this all-rush mixtape look (sound) like? I'm curious. :P And I would describe Arcan et. al. as a whole as curiously interesting. The only thing I know of like it is PicoGUI, a 2000-era display manager that could go as low as 1bpp on a ~20MHz 68k running uClinux (specifically this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/micahdowty/albums/72157627032507669 https://www.flickr.com/photos/micahdowty/albums/721576270325...), while also being able to handle 24bpp and even some bits of OpenGL. It was abandoned in 2003, and the author did a writeup of the worst of the design fails (some were... notable) at http://picogui.org/papers/ghost-of-picogui-past.html http://picogui.org/papers/ghost-of-picogui-past.html. While I would firmly categorize PGUI as a subset of your work, I thought I'd mention it because I think it tried to reach similar goals to what you've done, and you may potentially find the source code vaguely interesting to scavenge through on a rainy day (although it might take eg a Debian 4 VM to build cleanly without fuss). http://svn.navi.cx/picogui/trunk/ http://svn.navi.cx/picogui/trunk/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/pgui/files/picogui/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/pgui/files/picogui/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/pgui/files/OldFiles/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/pgui/files/OldFiles/ (hidden directory I found?) I have no idea if this will be interesting, I figured I'd mention it just in case.
- crazyloglad 10y ago
  Futurama reference ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmCqn-DNSA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmCqn-DNSA0 though apparently popular enough that some people have made all-rush playlists ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsKBIBJj-4M&list=PL8BF75E7F0B3888C3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsKBIBJj-4M&list=PL8BF75E7F0... ) On-topic - definitely a cool project and one that I haven't heard about actually, added to my queue of weekly source-code readings. I'd also consider DirectFB similar, and another project that I just have in my vaguest of memories (think they used a project-name like Cairo that got google-CVed out of existence from the more recent one) from the 2001-02ish era. They tried to attack X back then, but fell victims to the driver situation (but they had arbitrarily rotated windows!). One of my stronger personal influences is BeOS though - Compare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O40cPUqLbU&feature=youtu.be&t=2m33s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O40cPUqLbU&feature=youtu.be... :)
  - i336_ 10y ago
    Ahh... I don't watch any^H^H^Henough TV. :P I've been meaning to poke around PicoGUI myself - I personally love stuff that's tiny and efficient, always looking out for things like that. (I just found a bunch of old versions of Contiki, the ones with the GUI stack; the non-broken ones were fun to play with: http://hitmen.c02.at/html/tools_contiki.html http://hitmen.c02.at/html/tools_contiki.html) Very cool to hear I recommended something relevant! ^^ I've heard of DirectFB, but my understanding is that it just tames framebuffers, as opposed to dealing with everything below the toolkit level. I don't recall anything called Cairo myself, but as for attacking X I do vaguely recall a company that made a closed-source alternate Linux display stack+desktop environment; it was very rudimentary and went nowhere because of that. I like BeOS too. I keep meaning to install it (and OS/2... and QNX... and...), just preferably on real hardware. I have a bunch of old stuff hanging around here that I hope to use once I have a little file server and I can free up my dozens of old HDDs :P And your video (I watched the other one in 2008 :D still remember it) was really awesome, and led to git cloning and compila--"wait it's done already?! Nice." Now my main request is, please update the documentation on GitHub (particularly the quickstart instructions) so we all aren't stuck with just welcome.lua (which I initially thought was a builtin options screen then double-checked to see if I'd specified the args wrong, lol). I (and probably everyone else) want(s) to play with the stuff you're demoing in your videos! Another tiny thing I'd mention about the video (it was the first thing I noticed actually) was that it would be a) awesome to watch and b) a great demo of your engine's graphics pipeline performance, if you have the media player update its graph at like 60fps. Or at least 24fps. Just a thought. For my favorite reference of what fast VU looks like, I recommend rezound (http://rezound.sf.net/ http://rezound.sf.net/) - run it once, then edit ~/.rezound/registry.dat and set meterUpdateTime (in Meters {}) to something like 4 (it's a delay in microseconds I think, 4 is nice and doesn't flood X with updates too fast on my machine). The weird knob thing to the right of the VU (very bottom-right) adjusts the frequency response. Another possible source of fast VU updates is the Linux port of Open Cubic Player (http://stian.cubic.org/project-ocp.php http://stian.cubic.org/project-ocp.php) - alt+c, set framerate to 60 or 120fps, set font to 4x4 (after loading music :D), and the result there looks nice, too - although it responds best (for me) with a non-fullscreen window. (This one's a bit of a project to learn all the shortcuts for, IMO.)