7 ms·

I know it's one of those 'tabs or spaces' questions, but are there any decent alternatives to Reddit? I've tried Voat, but it's literally just Reddit. The wor

I know it's one of those 'tabs or spaces' questions, but are there any decent alternatives to Reddit? I've tried Voat, but it's literally just Reddit. The world needs a p2p, anonymity-first, censorship resistant link-sharing and discussion site/app/thing. If anyone could point in some such direction, I sure would appreciate it.

drhodes 10y ago
check out bitmessage https://bitmessage.org/wiki/Main_Page https://bitmessage.org/wiki/Main_Page
unlinker 10y ago
A p2p discussion site would even be slower than reddit itself, and that's a lot to say.
- shrugger 10y ago
  I've never been hindered by Reddit's speed myself. Is this a real issue in other places?
  - unlinker 10y ago
    If you are logged in (i.e. pages are not cached) and you load a page with lots of comments (or any page, at a peak hour), generation times of over three seconds are not unheard of.
DanBC 10y ago
>The world needs a p2p, anonymity-first, censorship resistant link-sharing and discussion site/app/thing Every single time that's been tried it tanked because either pathological arseholes overwhelmed everyone else, or no-one wanted to use it. But since you ask for an example that you can use: The "free" hierarchy of Usenet. It was set up to have no rules.
- visakanv 10y ago
  > Every single time that's been tried it tanked because either pathological arseholes overwhelmed everyone else, or no-one wanted to use it. Absolutely. I once ran a community that grew from 5 to 50 to 300+ people, and had this utopian vision that moderation wouldn't be necessary, we were intelligent, enlightened people who would have healthy discussions and hash out our disagreements in civil ways. Alas.
  - intended 10y ago
    AH, the FIRST dream of any mod. That said, moderation and moderation tools - especially on reddit, are evolving. To the point that many issues which I thought were fatal, are now manageable (such as permanent noise to signal ratio attenuation). Unfortunately what keeps me up at night, is that the tools we are developing are straight up censorship bots and their proliferation on various subreddits, and eventually to all social platforms is beyond worrisome. Theres big brother, and then theres the more agile and nimble little brother.
    - davidivadavid 10y ago
      Here's an idea that's probably naive and that's been tried before and failed: what about individual moderation? Let users decide: "I never want to see anything from that guy ever again" (unless, say, 50 people I've upvoted upvote one of his comments). I can see why people would want to avoid such solution, with all the "filter bubble" rhetoric, but I can't see why it wouldn't be a viable option? In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a huge opportunity in that space, for whoever nails the mechanics correctly.
      - icebraining 10y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_file https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_file
      - sgc 10y ago
        RES etc have this, but there are millions of users; thus I have never used it because the idea of going down that rabbit hole is rather off-putting. I like your basic premise though. There is a lot of space between reddit's "everything the mods let you see" (whether you want it or not) and facebook's "only what your friends (or Zuck) want you to see", and the two extremes cause a lot of friction. Something much better is certainly possible.
notduncansmith 10y ago
Working on it.
robbiemitchell 10y ago
How do you build a P2P site/app? Isn't that by nature hosted somewhere? As for alternatives, what about The Pirate Bay? Links, comments, anonymity.
- Tiquor 10y ago
  Old (some would say current) usenet was decentralized.
- icebraining 10y ago
  It's hosted by the computers of the users running the app. For web apps, see TiddlyWiki, which runs off a single HTML file. An existing example is Freenet, which has a decentralized messaging system.
Anon1096 10y ago
4chan's been here for a while for anyone looking for anonymity-first minimal moderation forums. Of course, it isn't the most pleasant site and definitely isn't for everyone.
- stanmancan 10y ago
  Surely how pleasant a site is must correlate to how much moderation and anonymity its users experience.
  - shrugger 10y ago
    Yeah, because Reddit has turned out great, hasn't it? /s
    - stanmancan 10y ago
      I'm sure most would agree Reddit is much more pleasant than 4chan.
      - dpc59 10y ago
        It really depends on the subreddits and their mods.
        unlinker 10y ago
        A huge split is always created: sites for left wingers (usually very moderated) and sites for right wingers (usually more free).
frabrunelle 10y ago
I am closely following Project Decorum (http://www.project-decorum.com http://www.project-decorum.com), which is built using the SAFE Network. I am also interested by Yours (https://www.yours.network https://www.yours.network), which is built using Bitcoin. And you can see a list of other related projects here: https://github.com/yoursnetwork/yours-core/blob/master/docs/general/links.md#related-projects https://github.com/yoursnetwork/yours-core/blob/master/docs/...
zeckalpha 10y ago
MetaFilter.
tomp 10y ago
As much as I would like to see this, censorship-resistant networks don't fare well in today's political climate (because of child porn and copyright). There's always a point of failure; if nothing else, it's the contact between the real world and the virtual world(s). We can see this today in the case of TOR. The network is censorship-resistant from within, but it's still vulnerable externally - if governments put its users into jail, that's effectively censoring the whole network instead of some specific content.
rsync 10y ago
"but are there any decent alternatives to Reddit?" You're on it. You're using it right now. This is it. I've been an active user and contributor to (in order) local BBS, Fidonet, Usenet, Slashdot, Kuro5hin, digg/reddit, HN, and in my opinion, HN is the best, most interesting and functional discussion board that has ever existed. Enjoy it! It won't last forever.
- nightcracker 10y ago
  HN is too limited in scope to be compared to reddit.
- shrugger 10y ago
  HN censoring is terrifyingly rampant, dang is an extremely egotistic, and objectively biased moderator. I don't disagree that HN is capable of producing interesting conversations, but it's a very limited window imo. HN suffers greatly from one of the major problems that plagues Reddit, and that's the hivemind effect that threads seem to have. I was a great fan of Slashdot because it was possible to see multiple threads with different opinions from a parent topic, but on HN, whatever the hivemind agrees with floats the top and the rest sinks like a rock. That people think HN is even close to a balanced platform is somewhat concerning.
  - throwawaymaroon 10y ago
    I wouldn't describe myself as a dang fan, but egotistic? Sure, he's just a low-ranking enforcer used to shield YC from criticism, but he's just doing his job. It's not exactly his fault, as a pawn, if the overall system is poisoned. But as to the rest of it, yeah, the HN hivemind is insane in exactly the same way Startup Culture is a sick, greedy mess.
  - dsacco 10y ago
    >> HN censoring is terrifyingly rampant, dang is an extremely egotistic, and objectively biased moderator. Sigh...alright, I'll bite. Can you give a concrete example of HN censoring in effect?
Pxtl 10y ago
Moderation is hard especially against bots and spammers. Moderation on a p2p environment would be harder. Reddit had the advantage that the subreddit is a natural partition point so it's not quite as hard a problem as something more granular, but still: p2p social network is hard.
- shrugger 10y ago
  Moderation of discussion is unethical, imo.
  - Pxtl 10y ago
    So are violent threats, doxxing, conspiring to commit horrible crimes, and racism. Which do you want on your site?
    - shrugger 10y ago
      Coercion is criminal. Should I stoop to the level of a common racist by FORCING him/her to speak a certain way? I've no right to tell people what they can and can not say, nor will I hold myself responsible for their thoughts and actions. It's their burden to bear.
      - Pxtl 10y ago
        But fora are really a website posting your comment on your behalf. A website shouldn't silence you, but is also under no obligation to give you their megaphone.
      - conceit 10y ago
        Coercion is not necessarily criminal. Where does it say otherwise? > Should I stoop to the level of a common racist by FORCING him/her to speak a certain way? You are not a Forum. On the other hand, your comment implies you try to convince someone to act (not) a certain way. The difference between the force and conviction might make all the difference, but conviction is one kind of force, isn't it?
      - 10y ago
_xander 10y ago
8chan is quite close to what you described. Although the anonymity-first censorship-resistance thing might give you more than you bargained for once you get there.
notduncansmith 10y ago
Hey, I'm working on something similar to what you're describing (focused on mobile right now) and would love to get your thoughts. My email is in my profile, please reach out and I'll show you what we've got so far.

drhodes 10y ago

check out bitmessage https://bitmessage.org/wiki/Main_Page https://bitmessage.org/wiki/Main_Page

unlinker 10y ago

A p2p discussion site would even be slower than reddit itself, and that's a lot to say.

shrugger 10y ago
I've never been hindered by Reddit's speed myself. Is this a real issue in other places?
- unlinker 10y ago
  If you are logged in (i.e. pages are not cached) and you load a page with lots of comments (or any page, at a peak hour), generation times of over three seconds are not unheard of.

DanBC 10y ago

>The world needs a p2p, anonymity-first, censorship resistant link-sharing and discussion site/app/thing Every single time that's been tried it tanked because either pathological arseholes overwhelmed everyone else, or no-one wanted to use it. But since you ask for an example that you can use: The "free" hierarchy of Usenet. It was set up to have no rules.

visakanv 10y ago
> Every single time that's been tried it tanked because either pathological arseholes overwhelmed everyone else, or no-one wanted to use it. Absolutely. I once ran a community that grew from 5 to 50 to 300+ people, and had this utopian vision that moderation wouldn't be necessary, we were intelligent, enlightened people who would have healthy discussions and hash out our disagreements in civil ways. Alas.
- intended 10y ago
  AH, the FIRST dream of any mod. That said, moderation and moderation tools - especially on reddit, are evolving. To the point that many issues which I thought were fatal, are now manageable (such as permanent noise to signal ratio attenuation). Unfortunately what keeps me up at night, is that the tools we are developing are straight up censorship bots and their proliferation on various subreddits, and eventually to all social platforms is beyond worrisome. Theres big brother, and then theres the more agile and nimble little brother.
  - davidivadavid 10y ago
    Here's an idea that's probably naive and that's been tried before and failed: what about individual moderation? Let users decide: "I never want to see anything from that guy ever again" (unless, say, 50 people I've upvoted upvote one of his comments). I can see why people would want to avoid such solution, with all the "filter bubble" rhetoric, but I can't see why it wouldn't be a viable option? In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a huge opportunity in that space, for whoever nails the mechanics correctly.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_file https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_file
    - sgc 10y ago
      RES etc have this, but there are millions of users; thus I have never used it because the idea of going down that rabbit hole is rather off-putting. I like your basic premise though. There is a lot of space between reddit's "everything the mods let you see" (whether you want it or not) and facebook's "only what your friends (or Zuck) want you to see", and the two extremes cause a lot of friction. Something much better is certainly possible.

notduncansmith 10y ago

Working on it.

robbiemitchell 10y ago

How do you build a P2P site/app? Isn't that by nature hosted somewhere? As for alternatives, what about The Pirate Bay? Links, comments, anonymity.

Tiquor 10y ago
Old (some would say current) usenet was decentralized.
icebraining 10y ago
It's hosted by the computers of the users running the app. For web apps, see TiddlyWiki, which runs off a single HTML file. An existing example is Freenet, which has a decentralized messaging system.

Anon1096 10y ago

4chan's been here for a while for anyone looking for anonymity-first minimal moderation forums. Of course, it isn't the most pleasant site and definitely isn't for everyone.

stanmancan 10y ago
Surely how pleasant a site is must correlate to how much moderation and anonymity its users experience.
- shrugger 10y ago
  Yeah, because Reddit has turned out great, hasn't it? /s
  - stanmancan 10y ago
    I'm sure most would agree Reddit is much more pleasant than 4chan.
    - dpc59 10y ago
      It really depends on the subreddits and their mods.
      - unlinker 10y ago
        A huge split is always created: sites for left wingers (usually very moderated) and sites for right wingers (usually more free).

frabrunelle 10y ago

I am closely following Project Decorum (http://www.project-decorum.com http://www.project-decorum.com), which is built using the SAFE Network. I am also interested by Yours (https://www.yours.network https://www.yours.network), which is built using Bitcoin. And you can see a list of other related projects here: https://github.com/yoursnetwork/yours-core/blob/master/docs/general/links.md#related-projects https://github.com/yoursnetwork/yours-core/blob/master/docs/...

zeckalpha 10y ago

MetaFilter.

tomp 10y ago

As much as I would like to see this, censorship-resistant networks don't fare well in today's political climate (because of child porn and copyright). There's always a point of failure; if nothing else, it's the contact between the real world and the virtual world(s). We can see this today in the case of TOR. The network is censorship-resistant from within, but it's still vulnerable externally - if governments put its users into jail, that's effectively censoring the whole network instead of some specific content.

rsync 10y ago

"but are there any decent alternatives to Reddit?" You're on it. You're using it right now. This is it. I've been an active user and contributor to (in order) local BBS, Fidonet, Usenet, Slashdot, Kuro5hin, digg/reddit, HN, and in my opinion, HN is the best, most interesting and functional discussion board that has ever existed. Enjoy it! It won't last forever.

nightcracker 10y ago
HN is too limited in scope to be compared to reddit.
shrugger 10y ago
HN censoring is terrifyingly rampant, dang is an extremely egotistic, and objectively biased moderator. I don't disagree that HN is capable of producing interesting conversations, but it's a very limited window imo. HN suffers greatly from one of the major problems that plagues Reddit, and that's the hivemind effect that threads seem to have. I was a great fan of Slashdot because it was possible to see multiple threads with different opinions from a parent topic, but on HN, whatever the hivemind agrees with floats the top and the rest sinks like a rock. That people think HN is even close to a balanced platform is somewhat concerning.
- throwawaymaroon 10y ago
  I wouldn't describe myself as a dang fan, but egotistic? Sure, he's just a low-ranking enforcer used to shield YC from criticism, but he's just doing his job. It's not exactly his fault, as a pawn, if the overall system is poisoned. But as to the rest of it, yeah, the HN hivemind is insane in exactly the same way Startup Culture is a sick, greedy mess.
- dsacco 10y ago
  >> HN censoring is terrifyingly rampant, dang is an extremely egotistic, and objectively biased moderator. Sigh...alright, I'll bite. Can you give a concrete example of HN censoring in effect?

Pxtl 10y ago

Moderation is hard especially against bots and spammers. Moderation on a p2p environment would be harder. Reddit had the advantage that the subreddit is a natural partition point so it's not quite as hard a problem as something more granular, but still: p2p social network is hard.

shrugger 10y ago
Moderation of discussion is unethical, imo.
- Pxtl 10y ago
  So are violent threats, doxxing, conspiring to commit horrible crimes, and racism. Which do you want on your site?
  - shrugger 10y ago
    Coercion is criminal. Should I stoop to the level of a common racist by FORCING him/her to speak a certain way? I've no right to tell people what they can and can not say, nor will I hold myself responsible for their thoughts and actions. It's their burden to bear.
    - Pxtl 10y ago
      But fora are really a website posting your comment on your behalf. A website shouldn't silence you, but is also under no obligation to give you their megaphone.
    - conceit 10y ago
      Coercion is not necessarily criminal. Where does it say otherwise? > Should I stoop to the level of a common racist by FORCING him/her to speak a certain way? You are not a Forum. On the other hand, your comment implies you try to convince someone to act (not) a certain way. The difference between the force and conviction might make all the difference, but conviction is one kind of force, isn't it?
    - 10y ago

_xander 10y ago

8chan is quite close to what you described. Although the anonymity-first censorship-resistance thing might give you more than you bargained for once you get there.

notduncansmith 10y ago

Hey, I'm working on something similar to what you're describing (focused on mobile right now) and would love to get your thoughts. My email is in my profile, please reach out and I'll show you what we've got so far.