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> Even in areas where there is no true urban center, or the urban center remains essentially deserted, Malls are still dying at a phenomenal rate. The Internet

> Even in areas where there is no true urban center, or the urban center remains essentially deserted, Malls are still dying at a phenomenal rate. The Internet and technology, has largely killed the mall. The Mall may live, but they're on life support. Is this true? Current data largely supports the opposite argument. There's no trend of malls (in general) going away, but of old/overbuilt/poorly-located malls dying (or their market dying) while new malls (or new types of malls) are being built. Most major markets are experiencing retail growth (net positive total retail sqft market-wide), despite many bad malls dying off. > They're not urban shopping centers, they're urban entertainment centers that happen to have shopping. Malls have always had a significant amount of entertainment. Nearly every major mall has had (and still has) a movie theatre and multiple restaurants. Some of folks may even remember a time when almost every mall had an arcade in it. http://www.costar.com/News/Article/As-Retail-Finally-Enters-Recovery-More-Investors-Backing-Malls-High-End-Shopping-Centers/177006 http://www.costar.com/News/Article/As-Retail-Finally-Enters-... http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2014/may/08/costar-strip-malls-retail-recovery/ http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2014/may/08/costar-... The "dead mall" story is a lot like pointing at Detroit or Flint or Baltimore and saying, "look at all those boarded up homes. Housing is dead! People hate having a place to live.". That may certainly be true in those specific areas, but most markets are actually experiencing modest-to-insane amounts of growth.

jhbadger 10y ago
Malls (at least in the traditional form) really are going away in the US. There hasn't been a new enclosed mall built in the US since 2006. (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-dying-breed-the-american-shopping-mall/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-dying-breed-the-american-shopp...), and many have closed and are closing. Retail isn't going away of course, but not using the mall model. Typical of what is popular now is the "Power Center" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_center_(retail) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_center_(retail)).
- maxsilver 10y ago
  A strip mall (or "power center") is still a mall.
  - jhbadger 10y ago
    Not culturally. The idea of a mall as a pseudo-public space where people would go on weekends just as a place to kill a few hours needs the enclosed part. A "strip mall" is a place where you park, go to the one store you want, and drive off.
sgnelson 10y ago
Well, first of all, retail square footage is not a great way to measure retail, (imo, and all of this is US centric) I may be in the minority here, but the US has such a ridiculous amount of retail space per capita, head and shoulders above any other country, I find it to just be insane. And as such, I don't think it's good measure, especially given that we have so much unused retail space now, along with my suburban sprawl note, which this is all about. Further, do not take what has been happening in the past 2 to 4 years as the norm, either in retail, housing, etc. It is very much not the norm. There are more old/overbuilt/poorly-located (again, not poorly located, but rather a victim of socio-economic and local changes) than there are new malls being built. And I have already made note of this fact. I already made note that new malls tend to be entertainment centers. There are more dying malls out there than there are new malls being built. And once again, a lot of those malls focus on entertainment (more than just food and a movie theater, and again, "shopping as entertainment") as well as high end goods. (you are not going to have 10 malls in a mid-size city each with a Louis Vuitton store, you're going to have 1, if they're a large enough city.) "but most markets are actually experiencing modest-to-insane amounts of growth." Nope. Not at all. Cities are experiencing modest-to-insane amounts of growth. Many small cities, towns, rural communities are static or contracting at a modest-to-insane rate. And guess what is happening to the malls located in those communities? (again, I noted this in the og comment; people tend to pay attention to NYC, San Fran, other large cities. Most Americans do not live in those places, those places are not the norm, they are the exception. This is something that many commenters of HN who live in those large cities seem to not grasp.) The dead malls are very much a part of the landscape, and will remain so (until they're torn down and redeveloped, which is what is supposed to happen.)

jhbadger 10y ago

Malls (at least in the traditional form) really are going away in the US. There hasn't been a new enclosed mall built in the US since 2006. (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-dying-breed-the-american-shopping-mall/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-dying-breed-the-american-shopp...), and many have closed and are closing. Retail isn't going away of course, but not using the mall model. Typical of what is popular now is the "Power Center" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_center_(retail) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_center_(retail)).

maxsilver 10y ago
A strip mall (or "power center") is still a mall.
- jhbadger 10y ago
  Not culturally. The idea of a mall as a pseudo-public space where people would go on weekends just as a place to kill a few hours needs the enclosed part. A "strip mall" is a place where you park, go to the one store you want, and drive off.

sgnelson 10y ago

Well, first of all, retail square footage is not a great way to measure retail, (imo, and all of this is US centric) I may be in the minority here, but the US has such a ridiculous amount of retail space per capita, head and shoulders above any other country, I find it to just be insane. And as such, I don't think it's good measure, especially given that we have so much unused retail space now, along with my suburban sprawl note, which this is all about. Further, do not take what has been happening in the past 2 to 4 years as the norm, either in retail, housing, etc. It is very much not the norm. There are more old/overbuilt/poorly-located (again, not poorly located, but rather a victim of socio-economic and local changes) than there are new malls being built. And I have already made note of this fact. I already made note that new malls tend to be entertainment centers. There are more dying malls out there than there are new malls being built. And once again, a lot of those malls focus on entertainment (more than just food and a movie theater, and again, "shopping as entertainment") as well as high end goods. (you are not going to have 10 malls in a mid-size city each with a Louis Vuitton store, you're going to have 1, if they're a large enough city.) "but most markets are actually experiencing modest-to-insane amounts of growth." Nope. Not at all. Cities are experiencing modest-to-insane amounts of growth. Many small cities, towns, rural communities are static or contracting at a modest-to-insane rate. And guess what is happening to the malls located in those communities? (again, I noted this in the og comment; people tend to pay attention to NYC, San Fran, other large cities. Most Americans do not live in those places, those places are not the norm, they are the exception. This is something that many commenters of HN who live in those large cities seem to not grasp.) The dead malls are very much a part of the landscape, and will remain so (until they're torn down and redeveloped, which is what is supposed to happen.)