6 ms·

How the ArXiv Decides What’s Science

78 points by yetanotheracc 10y ago

hyperion2010 10y ago
The basic heuristic I use for determining what 'counts' as science relies on 3 questions 1) Are there methods or is there a description of how to observe something? 2) Are old methods being applied to a new phenomenon. 3) Are new methods being applied to an old phenomenon. It isn't possible to do science if you don't have a viable tool (method) for measuring a phenomenon of interest or if you can't describe the phenomenon you want to study in a way that others can observe it. Cases like Mochizuki with the ABC conjecture are harder, but at least the ABC conjecture is a know quantity. It is reassuring that classifying papers by category of research works fairly well. Both phenomena and methodology are described using specialized vocabulary, and mismatches tend to jump out, like trying to use a hadron collider to study the blood pressure of a frog. I almost like to believe that a crackpot that could masquerade as a scientist might actually discover something because they would be forced to actually engage with the concepts and tools of science.
- CharlesMerriam2 10y ago
  The number of String Theory papers, PhD candidates, and conferences was staggering.
DyslexicAtheist 10y ago
>> The “insiders” can immediately tell who is an “outsider.” Often it doesn’t take more than a sentence or two, an odd expression, a term used in the wrong context, a phrase that nobody in the field would ever use. seems a bit like when you're on top of your game with a certain programming language and feeling bored with stackoverflow questions and mailing lists asking the same old questions. Happy that in software we can easily move on to a new language / concept / idea to keep things exciting.
- tanderson92 10y ago
  Of course, you can do that in science too. I believe the intent of that quoted text is not to indicate that all questions in scientific fields represented on arxiv, or even most, are answered. The only purpose is that language easily belies who does not "belong"
paulpauper 10y ago
I have found arxiv to be a dead-end when publishing without affiliation. It's impossible to get feedback on papers, let alone the necessary endorsement to submit. That leaves SSRN as the only option. Arxiv requires you to email authors for endorsements which almost never works, since it's essentially spam.
- tobias2014 10y ago
  There is vixra (vixra.org), but they also (mostly) have the "funny" stuff.
- jessriedel 10y ago
  Why not submit to a journal?
  - dnautics 10y ago
    1) opposition to journal copyrighting policies 2) cost
    - jessriedel 10y ago
      Most journals in the fields dominating the arXiv (physics, math, CS, and probably more) allow you to submit to the arXiv concurrently. So unless you refuse out of principle, you can both get free refereeing and release the paper open access.
      - dnautics 10y ago
        I'm aware that most subdisciplines of physics and CS are sympathetic to arXiv, but that is most certainly not the case in bio and chemistry, although the rise of biorxiv may start changing things.
        jessriedel 10y ago
        OK, but paulpauper was considering submitting the to arXiv.
kixngm 10y ago
"Science doesn’t operate with randomly generated hypotheses for the same reason natural selection doesn’t work with randomly generated genetic codes" isn't that... exactly what natural selection does?
poelzi 10y ago
Arxiv banned the physicist who actually was able to build a physical model that makes sense in every aspect. Just because the reviewer did not understand one of the conclusions, the periodic table, that was a result of the theory. Of course you don't understand a result if you don't understand the theory which requires months/years to really grasp. The principle they are using only works if you stay in your paradigm, but if your paradigm is broken, you loose any real progress. http://archivefreedom.org/freedom/Sarg.html http://archivefreedom.org/freedom/Sarg.html Having spent the time to understand, I only laugh these days about the many papers I see every week that contradict our standard model :)
- tagrun 10y ago
  Sorry to break this to you but this is crackpot science, and there is no way such a manuscript can pass through any respectable physicist. Obviously you're not a physicist; let me simply say that this is not how a scientific paper looks like. It is just some philosophical text attempting to interpret some basic concepts in physics, introducing new fields no one ever seen (seriously?), and myriad of strange conjectures coming from nowhere and it goes borderline mysticism about vacuum. There is no new basic equation from which you can derive new, experimentally testable conclusions. It's not even wrong. Here're a few gems from his "theory": > The energy is inseparable attribute of the matter. > The Bohr atomic model is a correct mathematical model when assuming that the space is void. > The intrinsic matter could never disappear. > The vacuum is not a void space, but contains a unique grid structure. This grid structure named a Cosmic Lattice (CL) is built by two types of alternatively arranged nodes, each one containing 4 sub-elementary particles with shape of six sided prisms. > The Newton’s gravitation (universal gravitational law) is a propagation of the IG field in CL space What?!? I'm sorry but I can't believe I wasted ~10 minutes reading this crap. Yes, sorry about the language, but this is bullshit pseudoscience and any sane respectable physicist will reject this and blacklist this guy. Here's how new theories in physics work: you put very little and very very basic assumptions into your theory (which is essentially an equation, that is compatible with experiments and hence is compatible with the old theory within a certain limited domain) and new stuff you derive from your basic equation comes out it in the form of experimentally testable predictions. You have to get a lot more stuff than you put into building your theory. Special relativity is a very nice example, you just assume Galilean invariance and constantancy of speed of light and out comes time-dilation, length contraction, energy-mass relation. If you add equivalence principle you get general relativity which gives you spacetime and new theory of gravity, blackholes, etc etc. And old Newtonian physics is happily reproduced when speeds and energy densities are small. And most importantly, predictions of new theory agrees with observations and experiments in the domain where the old theory failed. Some intermediate mathematical stuff between your basic equation and experimentally testable measurable predictions might be difficult to interpret (wavefunction and entanglement with Schordinger equation, "holes" with Dirac equation, virtual particles, etc.) but you don't dwell on this stuff like a philosopher because neither your current theory nor experiments doesn't give you a deeper understanding to it anyway. So instead of going mystic, you sweep the non-testable stuff under the rug, hope that future physicist will have a better theory eventually and just "Shut up and calculate". What you don't do is, you don't pull a myriad of new philosophical stuff out of nowhere where your assumptions are all that comes out and call it physics. Even if you're not a physicist, you can see what kind of a "scientist" he is by checking his publication history (0 papers in any respectable physics journal).

78 points by yetanotheracc 10y ago

hyperion2010 10y ago

The basic heuristic I use for determining what 'counts' as science relies on 3 questions 1) Are there methods or is there a description of how to observe something? 2) Are old methods being applied to a new phenomenon. 3) Are new methods being applied to an old phenomenon. It isn't possible to do science if you don't have a viable tool (method) for measuring a phenomenon of interest or if you can't describe the phenomenon you want to study in a way that others can observe it. Cases like Mochizuki with the ABC conjecture are harder, but at least the ABC conjecture is a know quantity. It is reassuring that classifying papers by category of research works fairly well. Both phenomena and methodology are described using specialized vocabulary, and mismatches tend to jump out, like trying to use a hadron collider to study the blood pressure of a frog. I almost like to believe that a crackpot that could masquerade as a scientist might actually discover something because they would be forced to actually engage with the concepts and tools of science.

CharlesMerriam2 10y ago
The number of String Theory papers, PhD candidates, and conferences was staggering.

DyslexicAtheist 10y ago

>> The “insiders” can immediately tell who is an “outsider.” Often it doesn’t take more than a sentence or two, an odd expression, a term used in the wrong context, a phrase that nobody in the field would ever use. seems a bit like when you're on top of your game with a certain programming language and feeling bored with stackoverflow questions and mailing lists asking the same old questions. Happy that in software we can easily move on to a new language / concept / idea to keep things exciting.

tanderson92 10y ago
Of course, you can do that in science too. I believe the intent of that quoted text is not to indicate that all questions in scientific fields represented on arxiv, or even most, are answered. The only purpose is that language easily belies who does not "belong"

paulpauper 10y ago

I have found arxiv to be a dead-end when publishing without affiliation. It's impossible to get feedback on papers, let alone the necessary endorsement to submit. That leaves SSRN as the only option. Arxiv requires you to email authors for endorsements which almost never works, since it's essentially spam.

tobias2014 10y ago
There is vixra (vixra.org), but they also (mostly) have the "funny" stuff.
jessriedel 10y ago
Why not submit to a journal?
- dnautics 10y ago
  1) opposition to journal copyrighting policies 2) cost
  - jessriedel 10y ago
    Most journals in the fields dominating the arXiv (physics, math, CS, and probably more) allow you to submit to the arXiv concurrently. So unless you refuse out of principle, you can both get free refereeing and release the paper open access.
    - dnautics 10y ago
      I'm aware that most subdisciplines of physics and CS are sympathetic to arXiv, but that is most certainly not the case in bio and chemistry, although the rise of biorxiv may start changing things.
      - jessriedel 10y ago
        OK, but paulpauper was considering submitting the to arXiv.

kixngm 10y ago

"Science doesn’t operate with randomly generated hypotheses for the same reason natural selection doesn’t work with randomly generated genetic codes" isn't that... exactly what natural selection does?

poelzi 10y ago

Arxiv banned the physicist who actually was able to build a physical model that makes sense in every aspect. Just because the reviewer did not understand one of the conclusions, the periodic table, that was a result of the theory. Of course you don't understand a result if you don't understand the theory which requires months/years to really grasp. The principle they are using only works if you stay in your paradigm, but if your paradigm is broken, you loose any real progress. http://archivefreedom.org/freedom/Sarg.html http://archivefreedom.org/freedom/Sarg.html Having spent the time to understand, I only laugh these days about the many papers I see every week that contradict our standard model :)

tagrun 10y ago
Sorry to break this to you but this is crackpot science, and there is no way such a manuscript can pass through any respectable physicist. Obviously you're not a physicist; let me simply say that this is not how a scientific paper looks like. It is just some philosophical text attempting to interpret some basic concepts in physics, introducing new fields no one ever seen (seriously?), and myriad of strange conjectures coming from nowhere and it goes borderline mysticism about vacuum. There is no new basic equation from which you can derive new, experimentally testable conclusions. It's not even wrong. Here're a few gems from his "theory": > The energy is inseparable attribute of the matter. > The Bohr atomic model is a correct mathematical model when assuming that the space is void. > The intrinsic matter could never disappear. > The vacuum is not a void space, but contains a unique grid structure. This grid structure named a Cosmic Lattice (CL) is built by two types of alternatively arranged nodes, each one containing 4 sub-elementary particles with shape of six sided prisms. > The Newton’s gravitation (universal gravitational law) is a propagation of the IG field in CL space What?!? I'm sorry but I can't believe I wasted ~10 minutes reading this crap. Yes, sorry about the language, but this is bullshit pseudoscience and any sane respectable physicist will reject this and blacklist this guy. Here's how new theories in physics work: you put very little and very very basic assumptions into your theory (which is essentially an equation, that is compatible with experiments and hence is compatible with the old theory within a certain limited domain) and new stuff you derive from your basic equation comes out it in the form of experimentally testable predictions. You have to get a lot more stuff than you put into building your theory. Special relativity is a very nice example, you just assume Galilean invariance and constantancy of speed of light and out comes time-dilation, length contraction, energy-mass relation. If you add equivalence principle you get general relativity which gives you spacetime and new theory of gravity, blackholes, etc etc. And old Newtonian physics is happily reproduced when speeds and energy densities are small. And most importantly, predictions of new theory agrees with observations and experiments in the domain where the old theory failed. Some intermediate mathematical stuff between your basic equation and experimentally testable measurable predictions might be difficult to interpret (wavefunction and entanglement with Schordinger equation, "holes" with Dirac equation, virtual particles, etc.) but you don't dwell on this stuff like a philosopher because neither your current theory nor experiments doesn't give you a deeper understanding to it anyway. So instead of going mystic, you sweep the non-testable stuff under the rug, hope that future physicist will have a better theory eventually and just "Shut up and calculate". What you don't do is, you don't pull a myriad of new philosophical stuff out of nowhere where your assumptions are all that comes out and call it physics. Even if you're not a physicist, you can see what kind of a "scientist" he is by checking his publication history (0 papers in any respectable physics journal).