10 ms·

Does anyone else yearn for life with what man has long called "wrestling"? Our ancestors used to cultivate their might, overcome deep physical challenge, and e

Does anyone else yearn for life with what man has long called "wrestling"? Our ancestors used to cultivate their might, overcome deep physical challenge, and express useful skills in sanctified circles. Wrestling used to mean something profoundly real to human-kind, as it still does for many cultures who haven't taken a plunge into a commercial modernity. I remember when I was young reading of loud gasps when `Okonkwo threw the Cat` in Things Fall Apart [0], one story's scene that resonates across distant lands, around familiar campfires, and within men's bones. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_fall_apart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_fall_apart

vox_mollis 10y ago
Yes. But on the other hand, the #2 story on HN right now is apologia for the inability to control one's emotional outbursts. You'll probably need to solve the hugbox problem before you introduce a primal renaissance to our nerd culture.
- mitchtbaum 10y ago
  Surely learning to feel your own life and limb would foster insight and self-control. And if that holds true, then this one-way media about physical expression, choreographed to maximize drama, surely causes imbalances to healthy and fruitful relief from bottling emotions.
- chickenfries 10y ago
  > apologia for the inability to control one's emotional outbursts. What makes you so angry about the idea that crying is normal and is nothing to be ashamed of?
  - vox_mollis 10y ago
    There's no anger here, only frustration over a society that normalizes permanent childhood. Adult crying over trivialities - or worse, Bernays-style manipulation - is symptomatic of an inability to manage one's emotions. The defining characteristic of transition from childhood is cognitive mastery over emotional whim.
    - jschwartzi 10y ago
      Crying is a normal part of healthy adulthood. Not bawling your eyes out screaming like a toddler crying, but shedding a tear or a few during an emotional moment. The defining characteristic of modern society is how it shames you for betraying your authentic feelings.
    - chickenfries 10y ago
      Frustrated, angry... same thing. > The defining characteristic of transition from childhood is cognitive mastery over emotional whim. Just because adults CAN suppress almost all emotional reactions doesn't mean that we should. Believing that certain emotional reactions should never be expressed, or that expressing them over 'trivialities' is bad, sounds like a very immature view of adulthood in my opinion. Shedding a tear when you are confronted with an image you find beautiful or poignant seems is one of the greatest things about being human. I'm only engaging in this conversation because engaging with my emotions rather than stifling them has been one of the most rewarding challenges of my life and required analyzinh a lot of my own programming. You have no idea what you're missing if you don't try.
    - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
      “Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” --C.S. Lewis
drumdance 10y ago
Among my friends at least Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has caught on big time. I tried a couple classes. While I enjoyed the workout, I had a feeling that if I did it regularly I would constantly be nursing an injury of one kind or another.
- mitchtbaum 10y ago
  Would you feel better about basically that with no striking or submissions? Those seem like what separates martial arts from sports. Among well-developed, modern wrestling styles, I also like how Folkstyle (called scholastic and collegiate[0]) doesn't reward for big throws, which have big risks, so it has a honed focus on skillful control (without violence). 0: for very good matches, search "NCAA Wrestling Finals"
cylinder 10y ago
No because I'd like people who can't cultivate physical might to still be able to succeed.
- mitchtbaum 10y ago
  Success can (and needs to) happen in multiple domains with coordination. In other words, a desk space is only as safe (and productive) as the strength of the structure that encloses, maintains, and supplies it.
- gadders 10y ago
  You don't have to succeed because of physical might, but it is a useful additional attribute.
cels 10y ago
Not me.
Avshalom 10y ago
Not wrestling specifically, but you certainly wouldn't be the first to feel a sort of alienation from... I don't know: call it physicality. There's a general sort of malaise you can see present in the US at least, it's why (or possibly because of) we see so much shit marketed to us via faux authenticity. Maybe it's just a perspective thing but I really think theirs a growing number of people developing a kind of knee jerk agrarian-utiopianist streak. I don't know what to recommend as far as further reading but it's certainly a concept that has been explored.
- paganel 10y ago
  > Not wrestling specifically, but you certainly wouldn't be the first to feel a sort of alienation from... I don't know: call it physicality We've been moving past this "physicality" for at least the last 3,000 years, it's what makes us, well, rational and modern humans. Case in point, the mighty Achilles and Hector both die, while the non-physical Ulysses finally manages to return home to his beloved Penelope. Also see Goliath vs David.
  - gadders 10y ago
    The non-physical Ulysses who has a bow that no-one except him is strong enough to string? Yeah, what a weed.
    - jessaustin 10y ago
      Hahaha yeah the meatheads have always bad-mouthed us tool-users.
- gadders 10y ago
  Try strength training. I.e lifting weights not for aesthetic reasons but to get stronger and lift heavier weights. I stayed it and loved it. It really is like levelling up your life and having a secret super power.
  - Avshalom 10y ago
GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
It's been done https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_John:_A_Book_About_Men https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_John:_A_Book_About_Men
CaptSpify 10y ago
> Does anyone else yearn for life with what man has long called "wrestling"? Maybe I'm mis-interpreting you, but isn't that one of the reasons Fight-Club resonated so well with people? Sure, it's story is deeper than "a bunch of guys get together for a friendly fighting session", but that was a big part of the draw behind it.
bglazer 10y ago
I agree. It seems like a lot of people are profoundly unable to be physically uncomfortable. It's disheartening to think about people who are so scared of sweating or having achey muscles that they'll avoid any experience that requires physical exertion.
ArkyBeagle 10y ago
No, I don't yearn for that at all. This sounds like "Fight Club". "Fight Club" is, I think, a reductio-ring plot - it disproves its original premise ( through contradiction ) and ends up where it started ( is a ring ) . So, no. Our ancestors had no choice but to embrace harsh physical challenge. We ain't gotta do that no more. I have ancestors I have met who were like that. They weren't romantic about it. If anything, they were a bit embarrassed by it.

vox_mollis 10y ago

Yes. But on the other hand, the #2 story on HN right now is apologia for the inability to control one's emotional outbursts. You'll probably need to solve the hugbox problem before you introduce a primal renaissance to our nerd culture.

mitchtbaum 10y ago
Surely learning to feel your own life and limb would foster insight and self-control. And if that holds true, then this one-way media about physical expression, choreographed to maximize drama, surely causes imbalances to healthy and fruitful relief from bottling emotions.
chickenfries 10y ago
> apologia for the inability to control one's emotional outbursts. What makes you so angry about the idea that crying is normal and is nothing to be ashamed of?
- vox_mollis 10y ago
  There's no anger here, only frustration over a society that normalizes permanent childhood. Adult crying over trivialities - or worse, Bernays-style manipulation - is symptomatic of an inability to manage one's emotions. The defining characteristic of transition from childhood is cognitive mastery over emotional whim.
  - jschwartzi 10y ago
    Crying is a normal part of healthy adulthood. Not bawling your eyes out screaming like a toddler crying, but shedding a tear or a few during an emotional moment. The defining characteristic of modern society is how it shames you for betraying your authentic feelings.
  - chickenfries 10y ago
    Frustrated, angry... same thing. > The defining characteristic of transition from childhood is cognitive mastery over emotional whim. Just because adults CAN suppress almost all emotional reactions doesn't mean that we should. Believing that certain emotional reactions should never be expressed, or that expressing them over 'trivialities' is bad, sounds like a very immature view of adulthood in my opinion. Shedding a tear when you are confronted with an image you find beautiful or poignant seems is one of the greatest things about being human. I'm only engaging in this conversation because engaging with my emotions rather than stifling them has been one of the most rewarding challenges of my life and required analyzinh a lot of my own programming. You have no idea what you're missing if you don't try.
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
    “Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” --C.S. Lewis

drumdance 10y ago

Among my friends at least Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has caught on big time. I tried a couple classes. While I enjoyed the workout, I had a feeling that if I did it regularly I would constantly be nursing an injury of one kind or another.

mitchtbaum 10y ago
Would you feel better about basically that with no striking or submissions? Those seem like what separates martial arts from sports. Among well-developed, modern wrestling styles, I also like how Folkstyle (called scholastic and collegiate[0]) doesn't reward for big throws, which have big risks, so it has a honed focus on skillful control (without violence). 0: for very good matches, search "NCAA Wrestling Finals"

cylinder 10y ago

No because I'd like people who can't cultivate physical might to still be able to succeed.

mitchtbaum 10y ago
Success can (and needs to) happen in multiple domains with coordination. In other words, a desk space is only as safe (and productive) as the strength of the structure that encloses, maintains, and supplies it.
gadders 10y ago
You don't have to succeed because of physical might, but it is a useful additional attribute.

cels 10y ago

Not me.

Avshalom 10y ago

Not wrestling specifically, but you certainly wouldn't be the first to feel a sort of alienation from... I don't know: call it physicality. There's a general sort of malaise you can see present in the US at least, it's why (or possibly because of) we see so much shit marketed to us via faux authenticity. Maybe it's just a perspective thing but I really think theirs a growing number of people developing a kind of knee jerk agrarian-utiopianist streak. I don't know what to recommend as far as further reading but it's certainly a concept that has been explored.

paganel 10y ago
> Not wrestling specifically, but you certainly wouldn't be the first to feel a sort of alienation from... I don't know: call it physicality We've been moving past this "physicality" for at least the last 3,000 years, it's what makes us, well, rational and modern humans. Case in point, the mighty Achilles and Hector both die, while the non-physical Ulysses finally manages to return home to his beloved Penelope. Also see Goliath vs David.
- gadders 10y ago
  The non-physical Ulysses who has a bow that no-one except him is strong enough to string? Yeah, what a weed.
  - jessaustin 10y ago
    Hahaha yeah the meatheads have always bad-mouthed us tool-users.
gadders 10y ago
Try strength training. I.e lifting weights not for aesthetic reasons but to get stronger and lift heavier weights. I stayed it and loved it. It really is like levelling up your life and having a secret super power.
- Avshalom 10y ago

GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago

It's been done https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_John:_A_Book_About_Men https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_John:_A_Book_About_Men

CaptSpify 10y ago

> Does anyone else yearn for life with what man has long called "wrestling"? Maybe I'm mis-interpreting you, but isn't that one of the reasons Fight-Club resonated so well with people? Sure, it's story is deeper than "a bunch of guys get together for a friendly fighting session", but that was a big part of the draw behind it.

bglazer 10y ago

I agree. It seems like a lot of people are profoundly unable to be physically uncomfortable. It's disheartening to think about people who are so scared of sweating or having achey muscles that they'll avoid any experience that requires physical exertion.

ArkyBeagle 10y ago

No, I don't yearn for that at all. This sounds like "Fight Club". "Fight Club" is, I think, a reductio-ring plot - it disproves its original premise ( through contradiction ) and ends up where it started ( is a ring ) . So, no. Our ancestors had no choice but to embrace harsh physical challenge. We ain't gotta do that no more. I have ancestors I have met who were like that. They weren't romantic about it. If anything, they were a bit embarrassed by it.