3 ms·

Technically it is just another sensor/actuator loop. While the high level concept is the same, it's not that they "feel" pain just the way we do.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
If you want a robot to "feel" the pain like we do, you'll have to code things like: - low-level reactions that get triggered by pain and override high-level directions - the pain cannot be filtered out and constantly consumes computational resources - enough of pain overwhelms the high-level processing completely And now, if the "high-level" processing gets advanced enough (i.e. AI-like), you could say that the robots do feel pain.
- hosh 10y ago
  No, that's not accurate. There are ways for humans to still maintain high-level directions with pain. There are ways to mentally block it out -- though that is not very effective. The "constantly consuming computational resources" has more to do with _suffering_ than with pain. For a practical application, see: https://www.quora.com/What-psychological-tricks-and-hacks-are-useful-to-know/answer/Barnard-Law-Collier https://www.quora.com/What-psychological-tricks-and-hacks-ar... Although humans tend to conflate pain with suffering, they are not the same thing.
  - LionessLover 10y ago
    > There are ways for humans to still maintain high-level directions with pain. You have not experienced severe pain yet. I want to see you with acute severe kidney pain from stones.
    - hosh 10y ago
      Yeah, I have experienced severe pain.
    - hosh 10y ago
      @LionessLover, to your point, it is true that without training, this will suck. I'm not one of those Sufi sages who can stay centered while being tortured by Islamic fundamentalists, or one of those Buddhist monks that set themselves on fire, meditating while they die, as a form of political protest. Your response, "I want to see you with X pain" is a very common response I have gotten over the years talking and working with people through their suffering. When I have brought up what I have, I tend to get this response. Embedded is the story, "there is no possible way you can understand my pain or suffering." Pain can be localized, and it is relative, but dukkha is non-local. For any given person, dukkha (suffering) is going to be the most intense form of dukkha. People can compare pain, but people cannot really compare suffering. What is the suffering of acute, severe kidney pain compared to say, childbirth? Dying of cancer? Seeing your family mutaliated and dead from war? Being raped? Being tortured? The conclusion I came to is that dukkha -- suffering, existential anguish -- is non-local, and cannot be trivialized (someone who stubs a toe might be in less pain than someone who has acute kidney pain from passing stones, but suffering is suffering), yet at the same time, the relief from suffering also comes from seeing suffering for what it is, clearly. This "clear seeing" is called vipassana. It is this clear seeing that is the real gem of being precisely aware of your pain. And just as importantly: relief of pain is not the same as relief of suffering. Lastly, this just past by my way. It is about the link between interoception (the perception and sensitivity to minute changes of state within the body) and resilience: http://www.bodyinmind.org/interoception-resilience/ http://www.bodyinmind.org/interoception-resilience/ Whatever suffering you have, or are going through, I hope you find what you are looking for.
aethos 10y ago
I think the real development will be the AI to predict which actions might cause it pain and thus avoid those actions.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

If you want a robot to "feel" the pain like we do, you'll have to code things like: - low-level reactions that get triggered by pain and override high-level directions - the pain cannot be filtered out and constantly consumes computational resources - enough of pain overwhelms the high-level processing completely And now, if the "high-level" processing gets advanced enough (i.e. AI-like), you could say that the robots do feel pain.

hosh 10y ago
No, that's not accurate. There are ways for humans to still maintain high-level directions with pain. There are ways to mentally block it out -- though that is not very effective. The "constantly consuming computational resources" has more to do with _suffering_ than with pain. For a practical application, see: https://www.quora.com/What-psychological-tricks-and-hacks-are-useful-to-know/answer/Barnard-Law-Collier https://www.quora.com/What-psychological-tricks-and-hacks-ar... Although humans tend to conflate pain with suffering, they are not the same thing.
- LionessLover 10y ago
  > There are ways for humans to still maintain high-level directions with pain. You have not experienced severe pain yet. I want to see you with acute severe kidney pain from stones.
  - hosh 10y ago
    Yeah, I have experienced severe pain.
  - hosh 10y ago
    @LionessLover, to your point, it is true that without training, this will suck. I'm not one of those Sufi sages who can stay centered while being tortured by Islamic fundamentalists, or one of those Buddhist monks that set themselves on fire, meditating while they die, as a form of political protest. Your response, "I want to see you with X pain" is a very common response I have gotten over the years talking and working with people through their suffering. When I have brought up what I have, I tend to get this response. Embedded is the story, "there is no possible way you can understand my pain or suffering." Pain can be localized, and it is relative, but dukkha is non-local. For any given person, dukkha (suffering) is going to be the most intense form of dukkha. People can compare pain, but people cannot really compare suffering. What is the suffering of acute, severe kidney pain compared to say, childbirth? Dying of cancer? Seeing your family mutaliated and dead from war? Being raped? Being tortured? The conclusion I came to is that dukkha -- suffering, existential anguish -- is non-local, and cannot be trivialized (someone who stubs a toe might be in less pain than someone who has acute kidney pain from passing stones, but suffering is suffering), yet at the same time, the relief from suffering also comes from seeing suffering for what it is, clearly. This "clear seeing" is called vipassana. It is this clear seeing that is the real gem of being precisely aware of your pain. And just as importantly: relief of pain is not the same as relief of suffering. Lastly, this just past by my way. It is about the link between interoception (the perception and sensitivity to minute changes of state within the body) and resilience: http://www.bodyinmind.org/interoception-resilience/ http://www.bodyinmind.org/interoception-resilience/ Whatever suffering you have, or are going through, I hope you find what you are looking for.

aethos 10y ago

I think the real development will be the AI to predict which actions might cause it pain and thus avoid those actions.