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I don't think anything prevents rampant cheating by American students. The difference is that American students do a lot of things that don't feel like cheatin

I don't think anything prevents rampant cheating by American students. The difference is that American students do a lot of things that don't feel like cheating to them. For example, fraternities sharing libraries of old exams and problem sets, versus outright plagiarism and ringers sitting for exams.

ethanbond 10y ago
The research establishes that virtually everyone cheats "just a little bit," and I think that sharing backwork falls under that "little bit" in most circumstances. At least at my school, backwork is demonstrably different seeing as one of the service fraternities officially, publicly distributes backwork for students to check out/scan/return. Some of the old exams are actually contributed by the professors themselves. Crucially, the amount of effort necessary to combat backwork sharing, should a professor see it as a problem, is pretty miniscule. I've taken numerous classes that either had no backwork available (hand-counting the number of tests given to the class), or that had totally useless backwork (changing the test format). Compare that to combatting students hiring test takers and paper writers? I know tons of students who utilize backwork, very very few who use unauthorized resources (e.g. cellphones) during exams (I've seen it happen once maybe twice), and no one who would ever consider a ringer. Do you really believe that these are all of the same severity and total damage to academic integrity? Regardless of whatever anecdata either of us can come up with, there are substantial cultural differences on this topic, isn't there? That's a serious question – I've always been led to believe that's the case, but I'm not an expert on Chinese culture by any stretch.
- sevensor 10y ago
  I think there's more than one cultural difference at work here. It's not just that there are cultural differences between the U.S. and China, but that there are generational cultural differences between you and me. It's been almost 20 years since I was an undergraduate. Back then, at my institution anyhow, sharing old exams that weren't publicly posted was considered deeply dishonest. As bad as having a ringer sit the exam for you. I was deeply shocked when, as a senior, I finally learned about the fraternities' libraries. Certainly, I was naive at the time. But my point is that, however you want to rationalize the practice of sharing old exams, it gives an unfair leg up to people who have access. At any rate, I thank you for the discussion. I'm going to be away from the internet for the weekend, so I'll yield the floor and read any further responses later.
studentrob 10y ago
> I don't think anything prevents rampant cheating by American students The system prevents it. Cheating has consequences at lower levels of American schools. In China, for the most part, it doesn't. Gifts buy good grades. The whole idea of getting into a good school based on your merits is subverted. The documentary Education, Education, about private colleges within China, shows what happens to poor families with this mindset [1]. They end up paying for schools that aren't really that good, and then they become part of what's become known as the Ant Tribe (蚁族), > Lian Si (廉思), then a postdoctoral researcher at Peking University, coined the term "ant tribe" to draw a comparison between the lives of these college graduates and ants: "They share every similarity with ants. They live in colonies in cramped areas. They're intelligent and hardworking, yet anonymous and underpaid." [2] The same thing happens in for-profit universities in the US. The film College, Inc documents this [3]. The degree of cheating by Asians is out of control. The entire SAT is being published. See the 3 minute video "Reused and Abused: How the test-prep industry games the SAT" [4] [1] https://youtu.be/BP61LwODTnY https://youtu.be/BP61LwODTnY [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_tribe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_tribe [3] http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/collegeinc/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/collegeinc/ [4] http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/college-sat-one/#video-SAT http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/college-s...

ethanbond 10y ago

The research establishes that virtually everyone cheats "just a little bit," and I think that sharing backwork falls under that "little bit" in most circumstances. At least at my school, backwork is demonstrably different seeing as one of the service fraternities officially, publicly distributes backwork for students to check out/scan/return. Some of the old exams are actually contributed by the professors themselves. Crucially, the amount of effort necessary to combat backwork sharing, should a professor see it as a problem, is pretty miniscule. I've taken numerous classes that either had no backwork available (hand-counting the number of tests given to the class), or that had totally useless backwork (changing the test format). Compare that to combatting students hiring test takers and paper writers? I know tons of students who utilize backwork, very very few who use unauthorized resources (e.g. cellphones) during exams (I've seen it happen once maybe twice), and no one who would ever consider a ringer. Do you really believe that these are all of the same severity and total damage to academic integrity? Regardless of whatever anecdata either of us can come up with, there are substantial cultural differences on this topic, isn't there? That's a serious question – I've always been led to believe that's the case, but I'm not an expert on Chinese culture by any stretch.

sevensor 10y ago
I think there's more than one cultural difference at work here. It's not just that there are cultural differences between the U.S. and China, but that there are generational cultural differences between you and me. It's been almost 20 years since I was an undergraduate. Back then, at my institution anyhow, sharing old exams that weren't publicly posted was considered deeply dishonest. As bad as having a ringer sit the exam for you. I was deeply shocked when, as a senior, I finally learned about the fraternities' libraries. Certainly, I was naive at the time. But my point is that, however you want to rationalize the practice of sharing old exams, it gives an unfair leg up to people who have access. At any rate, I thank you for the discussion. I'm going to be away from the internet for the weekend, so I'll yield the floor and read any further responses later.

studentrob 10y ago

> I don't think anything prevents rampant cheating by American students The system prevents it. Cheating has consequences at lower levels of American schools. In China, for the most part, it doesn't. Gifts buy good grades. The whole idea of getting into a good school based on your merits is subverted. The documentary Education, Education, about private colleges within China, shows what happens to poor families with this mindset [1]. They end up paying for schools that aren't really that good, and then they become part of what's become known as the Ant Tribe (蚁族), > Lian Si (廉思), then a postdoctoral researcher at Peking University, coined the term "ant tribe" to draw a comparison between the lives of these college graduates and ants: "They share every similarity with ants. They live in colonies in cramped areas. They're intelligent and hardworking, yet anonymous and underpaid." [2] The same thing happens in for-profit universities in the US. The film College, Inc documents this [3]. The degree of cheating by Asians is out of control. The entire SAT is being published. See the 3 minute video "Reused and Abused: How the test-prep industry games the SAT" [4] [1] https://youtu.be/BP61LwODTnY https://youtu.be/BP61LwODTnY [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_tribe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_tribe [3] http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/collegeinc/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/collegeinc/ [4] http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/college-sat-one/#video-SAT http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/college-s...