30 ms·

Am I missing something? I've never heard of using water for A/C, is using freon and other refrigerants a western thing? Do refrigerants not work as well in Indi

by jbob2000 10y ago

Am I missing something? I've never heard of using water for A/C, is using freon and other refrigerants a western thing? Do refrigerants not work as well in India?

yardie 10y ago
Yes, industrial chillers use water. Water is much more efficient at evaporative cooling than just air so you can cool more refrigerant in a much smaller space. Most skyscrapers will keep the chiller on the roof or in the basement. And that is enough to cool the entire building. The domestic air cooled condenser in most homes and small offices just don't scale.
- jbob2000 10y ago
  Oh, cool! Thanks for the info. Is it a closed system? Does the water need to be replenished?
  - psheets 10y ago
    If you use an evaporator tower you do need to replenish that water. The tower is usually used to cool a closed loop of water (or glycol/water mix depending on the climate) that cools the refrigerant in a chiller. The system in the article uses a pipe loop underground in place of an evaporator. This uses less water/energy but require a higher first cost and very specific location requirements which is why the cooling towers are still more popular.
  - cdr 10y ago
    They are definitely not closed; poorly maintained, the water vapor they output can spread pathogens for miles. Cooling towers were blamed for the recent outbreak of Legionnaires' disease in New York City.
    - yardie 10y ago
      I wouldn't doubt it. Even a small domestic AC can be mold city if not cleaned regularly. It's a warm and moist environment just perfect for all types of bugs.
  - yardie 10y ago
    It depends and yes. Some systems will have a closed system using water or ammonia as the intermediary medium. The coolant is pumped to an air handler on each floor where it cools a condenser filled with refrigerant. Most chillers are just a big empty box where water is poured over the coils. The evaporating effect cools the medium inside and vents as steam or water vapour.
    - psheets 10y ago
      "Chillers" are actually direct expansion cooling devices for liquid. They have a condenser and evaporator just like an air cooled air conditioning system. The evaporator will be on the chilled water supply side and the condenser can be cooled by water or air. The big empty box with water is an evaporative cooling tower used to cool the condenser side water.
psheets 10y ago
Larger systems can use cooling towers which leverage evaporative cooling. Also, arid climates can use swamp coolers to cool a space. They work on the same principal. When water evaporates, it pulls energy from the surrounding medium, causing the temperature to drop.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  This article has a nice diagram and some explanation: http://www.buildings.com/article-details/articleid/5757/title/what-a-water-cooled-hvac-system-can-do-for-your-building.aspx http://www.buildings.com/article-details/articleid/5757/titl... In the discussed example, the water cooled system uses ~1/2 the energy of the air cooled system.
  - abakker 10y ago
    In CA, swamp coolers can be really great - http://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Conditioners-Coolers-Evaporative-Coolers/N-5yc1vZc4lr http://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Condi... I used one when I worked with a friend in LA on a car restoration project. They can generate a LOT of cooling very quickly as long as it is dry outside.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      It's funny they show the northern Midwest in the maybe zone. When it is hot here, it is usually also quite humid.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
sathackr 10y ago
The systems that use water still use the typical refrigerant-based cooling, the difference is they use water and evaporative cooling to cool the condenser coils(the hot side, usually cooled with just a fan in typical residential units) This allows the hot/high pressure side to be cooled to lower temperatures than possible with only air cooling, which increases the efficiency of the unit. Since water is evaporated, this required a continuous supply of new water. Another use of water is in the distribution of the cooling -- basically using the above system to chill a different water supply, then using this chilled water to pipe the cooling to various areas of the building. This is typically a closed loop system and shouldn't require any additional water over the amount required to initially fill the system, unless there is a leak.

Am I missing something? I've never heard of using water for A/C, is using freon and other refrigerants a western thing? Do refrigerants not work as well in India?

yardie 10y ago

Yes, industrial chillers use water. Water is much more efficient at evaporative cooling than just air so you can cool more refrigerant in a much smaller space. Most skyscrapers will keep the chiller on the roof or in the basement. And that is enough to cool the entire building. The domestic air cooled condenser in most homes and small offices just don't scale.

jbob2000 10y ago
Oh, cool! Thanks for the info. Is it a closed system? Does the water need to be replenished?
- psheets 10y ago
  If you use an evaporator tower you do need to replenish that water. The tower is usually used to cool a closed loop of water (or glycol/water mix depending on the climate) that cools the refrigerant in a chiller. The system in the article uses a pipe loop underground in place of an evaporator. This uses less water/energy but require a higher first cost and very specific location requirements which is why the cooling towers are still more popular.
- cdr 10y ago
  They are definitely not closed; poorly maintained, the water vapor they output can spread pathogens for miles. Cooling towers were blamed for the recent outbreak of Legionnaires' disease in New York City.
  - yardie 10y ago
    I wouldn't doubt it. Even a small domestic AC can be mold city if not cleaned regularly. It's a warm and moist environment just perfect for all types of bugs.
- yardie 10y ago
  It depends and yes. Some systems will have a closed system using water or ammonia as the intermediary medium. The coolant is pumped to an air handler on each floor where it cools a condenser filled with refrigerant. Most chillers are just a big empty box where water is poured over the coils. The evaporating effect cools the medium inside and vents as steam or water vapour.
  - psheets 10y ago
    "Chillers" are actually direct expansion cooling devices for liquid. They have a condenser and evaporator just like an air cooled air conditioning system. The evaporator will be on the chilled water supply side and the condenser can be cooled by water or air. The big empty box with water is an evaporative cooling tower used to cool the condenser side water.

psheets 10y ago

Larger systems can use cooling towers which leverage evaporative cooling. Also, arid climates can use swamp coolers to cool a space. They work on the same principal. When water evaporates, it pulls energy from the surrounding medium, causing the temperature to drop.

maxerickson 10y ago
This article has a nice diagram and some explanation: http://www.buildings.com/article-details/articleid/5757/title/what-a-water-cooled-hvac-system-can-do-for-your-building.aspx http://www.buildings.com/article-details/articleid/5757/titl... In the discussed example, the water cooled system uses ~1/2 the energy of the air cooled system.
- abakker 10y ago
  In CA, swamp coolers can be really great - http://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Conditioners-Coolers-Evaporative-Coolers/N-5yc1vZc4lr http://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Condi... I used one when I worked with a friend in LA on a car restoration project. They can generate a LOT of cooling very quickly as long as it is dry outside.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    It's funny they show the northern Midwest in the maybe zone. When it is hot here, it is usually also quite humid.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

sathackr 10y ago

The systems that use water still use the typical refrigerant-based cooling, the difference is they use water and evaporative cooling to cool the condenser coils(the hot side, usually cooled with just a fan in typical residential units) This allows the hot/high pressure side to be cooled to lower temperatures than possible with only air cooling, which increases the efficiency of the unit. Since water is evaporated, this required a continuous supply of new water. Another use of water is in the distribution of the cooling -- basically using the above system to chill a different water supply, then using this chilled water to pipe the cooling to various areas of the building. This is typically a closed loop system and shouldn't require any additional water over the amount required to initially fill the system, unless there is a leak.