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> I think much of human suffering due to competition stems from lack of security, or the lack of reassurance that basic needs will be met. Good comment - there

> I think much of human suffering due to competition stems from lack of security, or the lack of reassurance that basic needs will be met. Good comment - there are two places I disagree with you: 1) See the hedonic treadmill theory[0]. You could point to someone, relatively speaking, who is on top of the world. But they are still unhappy. Why is this? It's sometimes theorized that we are at a "set point" in happiness, and while we can run faster on the treadmill, or slow down on the treadmill from time to time, we are stuck at this set level of happiness. 2) Surely the vast majority of the developed western world is not at a lack for "basic needs", but why is there so much anger and despair? Because I believe you might be missing more of the "basic needs" than just Food and Water. See Maslow's hierarchy of needs[1]. While it is also theory which has arguments against it, it utilizes a more comprehensive definition of "needs." Surely there are many people in the western world who lack psychological stability or lack companionship. > All of the needs of your friends and family are met. You will need to define "needs" because IMHO, that is not true. I have relatives who are veterans of war, friends who have had psychotic breaks, friends who have everything they need but something just doesn't "click" with them. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs

hodwik 10y ago
>"we are stuck at this set level of happiness." Relevent HAPPYish scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AWcB_xuBSM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AWcB_xuBSM
Styx- 10y ago
You're right, I should've defined "needs". I actually had Maslow's Hierarchy in mind when I made my comment. Also, "all of your needs as a human being are met" was meant in the context of a technological utopia, not now. As for the hedonic treadmill, I'm sure this is something that philosophers have considered for ages, but I can only give my personal thoughts on it which are this: I believe that "happiness" is attainable. Perhaps not pure bliss like popular culture likes to portray it as, but when I think of "happiness" I usually think of "contentedness." In this frame, I think it becomes more obviously attainable. And if it is attainable in the far-from-perfect world we live in now, then surely it will be attainable in some-distant-future-full-of-convenience. I also think that this concept of hedonism is self-perpetuating. If you believe in nihilism, it becomes your reality. If you reject nihilism, it doesn't.
ctchocula 10y ago
According to this post, the hedonic treadmill theory has been disproven. [0] "The author is flat out wrong. The Hedonic Treadmill has been disproven. Moreover, the author seems to be conflating the concept of the treadmill, with adaptation. The former denotes the subject returns to the original state. The latter recognizes that while we become accustomed to new things, we still improve in happiness. The author is also misquoting, or misunderstanding, Kahneman. Kahneman isn't talking at all about the treadmill. He's talking about what he called the "Focusing Illusion"-- a fancy way of saying "the grass is always greener on the other side..." Relevant links: "Beyond the Hedonic Treadmill: Revising the Adaptation Theory of Well-Being" http://www.factorhappiness.at/downloads/quellen/S9_Diener.pdf http://www.factorhappiness.at/downloads/quellen/S9_Diener.pd... Kahneman tried to explain the hedonic treadmill via with his own aspiration treadmill. He claims that he not only failed, but the data were opposite to his hypothesis. https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10056 https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10056 Kahneman's paper where that OP misquotes Kahneman from: http://psiexp.ss.uci.edu/research/teaching/Schkade_Kahneman_1998.pdf http://psiexp.ss.uci.edu/research/teaching/Schkade_Kahneman_... [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11535504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11535504
- FilterSweep 10y ago
  Note the key word in my post theory as opposed to "The Hedonic Treadmill" (law, or such thereof).
groovy2shoes 10y ago
I can't speak for everyone, but the primary reason I remain unhappy despite having my basic needs cared for is Marxist alienation [1]. Put simply, as long as I remain a wage-slave for the bourgeoisie, I will not have the capacity for true happiness. But not to worry -- I have plans. Patience is key. Soon enough, I will liberate myself from wage labor. Part of what's so great about being a programmer is that the means of software production are relatively inexpensive, and indeed I already possess them. Wish me luck! :) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation

hodwik 10y ago

>"we are stuck at this set level of happiness." Relevent HAPPYish scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AWcB_xuBSM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AWcB_xuBSM

Styx- 10y ago

You're right, I should've defined "needs". I actually had Maslow's Hierarchy in mind when I made my comment. Also, "all of your needs as a human being are met" was meant in the context of a technological utopia, not now. As for the hedonic treadmill, I'm sure this is something that philosophers have considered for ages, but I can only give my personal thoughts on it which are this: I believe that "happiness" is attainable. Perhaps not pure bliss like popular culture likes to portray it as, but when I think of "happiness" I usually think of "contentedness." In this frame, I think it becomes more obviously attainable. And if it is attainable in the far-from-perfect world we live in now, then surely it will be attainable in some-distant-future-full-of-convenience. I also think that this concept of hedonism is self-perpetuating. If you believe in nihilism, it becomes your reality. If you reject nihilism, it doesn't.

ctchocula 10y ago

According to this post, the hedonic treadmill theory has been disproven. [0] "The author is flat out wrong. The Hedonic Treadmill has been disproven. Moreover, the author seems to be conflating the concept of the treadmill, with adaptation. The former denotes the subject returns to the original state. The latter recognizes that while we become accustomed to new things, we still improve in happiness. The author is also misquoting, or misunderstanding, Kahneman. Kahneman isn't talking at all about the treadmill. He's talking about what he called the "Focusing Illusion"-- a fancy way of saying "the grass is always greener on the other side..." Relevant links: "Beyond the Hedonic Treadmill: Revising the Adaptation Theory of Well-Being" http://www.factorhappiness.at/downloads/quellen/S9_Diener.pdf http://www.factorhappiness.at/downloads/quellen/S9_Diener.pd... Kahneman tried to explain the hedonic treadmill via with his own aspiration treadmill. He claims that he not only failed, but the data were opposite to his hypothesis. https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10056 https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10056 Kahneman's paper where that OP misquotes Kahneman from: http://psiexp.ss.uci.edu/research/teaching/Schkade_Kahneman_1998.pdf http://psiexp.ss.uci.edu/research/teaching/Schkade_Kahneman_... [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11535504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11535504

FilterSweep 10y ago
Note the key word in my post theory as opposed to "The Hedonic Treadmill" (law, or such thereof).

groovy2shoes 10y ago

I can't speak for everyone, but the primary reason I remain unhappy despite having my basic needs cared for is Marxist alienation [1]. Put simply, as long as I remain a wage-slave for the bourgeoisie, I will not have the capacity for true happiness. But not to worry -- I have plans. Patience is key. Soon enough, I will liberate myself from wage labor. Part of what's so great about being a programmer is that the means of software production are relatively inexpensive, and indeed I already possess them. Wish me luck! :) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation