8 ms·

The Persian Rug May Not Be Long for This World

105 points by aaronbrethorst 10y ago

danieltillett 10y ago
I feel conflicted about "Persian" rugs. So much child labor goes into making them that by buying one you are helping support a dispicable trade in human misery. At the same time they can be highly beautiful and practical. I have decided to take the same approach as with Ivory - old ivory is fine, but new Ivory is not. I have a few antique rugs that I really love, but I would not buy a new one.
- sandworm101 10y ago
  But unlike ivory, that cannot be made without dead elephants, it possible to create a Persian carpet without child labour. Children used to mine coal, but we still have coal. So we can still have Persian carpets. I used to live in the middle east and when I left I brought a medium-sized pile of them. They are great and very utilitarian. The one in my living room is nearly a hundred years old and has seen many generations of dogs, cats and in all probability goats. They can be cleaned an repaired in a way rare for modern products.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    Sure, but it is really hard to ensure this as a consumer. Most rugs don't come with a label "made with slave labor". By only buying old you get to avoid supporting continued abuses while still having an item of beauty and practicality.
    - the_rosentotter 10y ago
      A lot of the stuff you use every day is made with what is practically slave labor, often child labor too. Not that it makes it any better, but there is no reason to single out rugs.
- wfunction 10y ago
  Do you have any links that support the idea that child labor is a major part of the labor and that said children are actually living in misery?
  - ggggtez 10y ago
    Are you suggesting it's possible to have child labor where the children don't live in misery? I think that's historically unprecedented.
    - colechristensen 10y ago
      I grew up on a farm in Iowa, spent much of my youth working, and wouldn't describe it as misery.
    - wtbob 10y ago
      Growing up I knew a lot of families whose children worked in their restaurants. While — kids being kids — I'm sure that they would have told you that they were miserable, I don't think that they actually were. Honestly, is a kid who must work any more miserable than an adult who must work? The entire idea of childhood is a very recent invention, after all.
      - sandworm101 10y ago
        >> is a kid who must work any more miserable than an adult who must work? Yes, if that working deprives them of an education. Or if they work in conditions that an adult would not tolerate. Or if their pay is paid to someone else (ie parents renting out children). Or if their status as "children" or "wards" of their employers results in them having fewer rights than adults in the same employ.
        wodenokoto 10y ago
        "yes, if" doesn't really make any sense to this type of question. Is it really better to be a man than a woman? Yes, if you're rich. Are dogs really worse than cats? Yes, if they have rabies. I think decent working conditions was more than implied by parent.
- IOT_Apprentice 10y ago
  Interesting there were no photos of children in the piece but rather men and mention of old women.
- tn13 10y ago
  "Misery" is a relative term. A 12 year old working in fields might seem harsh to an American but for an Indian or Bangladeshi kid that is an opportunity because the alternative is dying on the street devoid of any help. Many top American brands use the services of slum sweatshops in USA directly and indirectly and employ children in harsh conditions but this work is better than working as child prostitutes of beggars. Globalization helped these slum children get better, earn more and live a better life than in past even though as per American standards one might see it as a miserable life. Trading more and more with poor countries is the best way Americans can help the poor countries. People complain about China's sweatshops and work conditions but in reality Chinese are far better off than 30 years and and the labor value and conditions have improved steadily over last 3 decades.
  - Aelinsaar 10y ago
    That has nothing to do with the relativity of misery, it's just a testament to how miserable their other choices are.
    - iopq 10y ago
      Yes, but you would rather have them starve. I did some odd jobs as a teenager after school for cash, why is that a bad thing? Is work something that only adults can do?
      - pyre 10y ago
        > I did some odd jobs as a teenager after school for cash, why is that a bad thing? I think that this indicates a disconnect between your reality and theirs. Whether or not the work improves their condition, comparing what they live through with "doing odd jobs as a teenager for extra cash" sounds a bit like you're not living in reality.
        iopq 10y ago
        Of course my reality is different. I just don't see why a teenager working is somehow abhorrent while an adult working is fine.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  It's tragic and should be fixed. But before you try to fix it with boycotts, remember that people in sweatshops are there because that is literally their best opportunity.
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    I am not suggesting a boycott, just trying to come to a personal moral position I feel comfortable with.
    - Pyxl101 10y ago
      Immanuel Kant came up with an idea that's known as the categorical imperative. It is best known under the formulation: "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law." Have you heard of the Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics? I found it interesting to read about: https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-ethics/ https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth...
      - danieltillett 10y ago
        I am not sure I agree with Kant. There are many things I personally would do or not do, but which I don't feel should be universal. Good arguments can be made for buying new rugs, but I don't want to have something in my home which I feel might be helping perpetuate child slavery. This is just my personal moral judgement and not one I want to impose on anyone else.
        icebraining 10y ago
        But does it perpetuate it, or help them escape it faster? My grandmothers both worked as children in Europe. Nowadays I'm a software developer who sits on his ass and complains if I'm working for than 8h/day. The same pattern seems to have been the norm in most (all?) developed countries.
- venomsnake 10y ago
  I think there is distinction between child labor and child exploitation for labor. In my summers as a kid I have done some agricultural work helping my parents and their friends. I was hard but rewarding (also hitting someone with a rotten potato - at age 8 - feels like watching Hamilton). And seeing the insane workload that some modern parents put on their kids for academic advancement - the line can get blurry. There is world of difference between a small family operation in which the kids help (which is what was presented in the article) and work you till your fingers bleed workshop. Kids have always provided labor - and misery there is optional. What we should look for is if the labor hurts the child or helps him and his family.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  Citation?
- codingdave 10y ago
  I'm all for avoiding purchases of products that involve child labor. It is worth researching how pervasive that is, because many products manufactured overseas suffer from this problem. It is the main reason I buy into "Made in the USA." Not because I am overly patriotic (I'm not.), but because it improves the odds that child labor was not involved in its production.
sk5t 10y ago
Certainly a tangent, but can anyone share tips on where/how to pick up traditional wool rugs without getting taken for a ride? I get the distinct impression most vendors are buying way low and angling to sell way high...
- bane 10y ago
  We found ours, at all places, at a Lord & Taylor (or Nordstrom can't remember which one now) travelling rug show. List price was $11k, the show had it on "sale" for $4k we took advantage of a combined holiday sale and some other discounts (we signed up for a store credit card to get another 15% off of our first purchase) and after all the discounts stacked ended up paying around $2k. Internet prices put it at similar rugs at between $6k-$12k. Home Depot and a few other places have similar traveling rug shows. Harder to haggle at those vs. a rug store, but I feel like you get fairer pricing. The store "Homegoods" in the U.S. also has a rug section that will on occasion stock hand-made rugs at very good prices. I would personally avoid the dedicated dealers as they'll pump up the price and take advantage of uninformed consumers. Definitely worth it to study up a little on what contributes to pricing variability in rugs (location, material, knot density, etc.) If you travel, I've seen very good prices in and around the middle east (sounds obvious, but hey)
- kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
  Craigslist.
- DonHopkins 10y ago
  Without getting taken for a magic carpet ride? I say, take the ride!
- adrianN 10y ago
  Buy directly from a manufacturer. There are some smallish manufacturers in Germany, I'm sure your country has them too. For example http://www.allgaeuer-teppichmanufaktur.de/en.html http://www.allgaeuer-teppichmanufaktur.de/en.html
- danieltillett 10y ago
  I have bought all of mine at physical auctions. Once you go to a few you learn who the dealers are and bid just above them - they can only go to wholesale prices while you can go to retail. Just make sure they are not the one selling the rug in the first place - come in on the last possible moment tends to make it hard for them to shill bid you up.
bane 10y ago
We have a huge (10'x13') Antique Wool Persian Rug made in Kashan before the revolution. Not quite sure how old it is, but the dealer claimed it was likely first imported in the 1930s. We also have several cheaper machine-made Persian-style rugs from a few different places. The real one is the centerpiece of our entire house, and a treasure. It definitely has a quality and beauty that the machine-made ones don't possess. They're one-of-a-kind works of art. At some point it was repaired and there's a little difference in the dye colors where the patching was performed. Knowing it has some history really adds to the feeling of value. It's an antique you can walk and lay down on. If our home caught fire, I would probably grab my computer and that rug and leave the rest to burn. It completely transformed the room we put it in and brought it grace and character. The machine-made rugs we put furniture on top of and are already starting to fall apart in places, even the nicer one we paid lots of money for before we got smart. If you're patient and look around, you kind find them at fairly steep discounts, and now that the market is opening up, I expect the prices to drop even more. Our rug was appraised at something north of $15k, but we bought it for less than $2k. Quick checks on the internet show me similar rugs for around $6.5k. (here's one that looks superficially like ours http://esalerugs.com/red-palace-rugs-kashan-persian-rug-22199335# http://esalerugs.com/red-palace-rugs-kashan-persian-rug-2219...) When we decided to get a rug, we went through lots of research and shopping, finally decided on a Persian-style rug and hit rug markets and dealers all over our area. For us at least, the color schemes of the made-in-Iran rugs (over the often cheaper Pakistan, Turkish or Afghan handmade rugs) really was unmatched in hitting our taste. Sorry if this sounds like a commercial, but these really are special objects. It's a shame that there's so many middle-men in-between the weavers and the buyers, I'd much rather have paid the weavers directly, but stupid global politics get in the way. I'm very excited for the slowly thawing relations with Iran, there's so many really wonderful cultural things I'm hoping come exploding out of that country.
- rmason 10y ago
  My grandparents had Persian rugs imported in the 1920's that were simply beautiful. Hope some future Iranian enters YC and cuts out all the middlemen. It would be easy to offer premium prices to the best craftsmen and still offer attractive deals over the web to North America and Europe. Probably the only way I can afford one.
driverdan 10y ago
How much would their $400 6x9 rug cost in the US after markups? I'd love to have a few nice rugs but that price seems very low. I'm curious at what volume does it make sense to go there, buy, and ship back rather than buying ones that have already been imported.
- bane 10y ago
  It depends mostly on knot count and condition. Higher knots per inch, the higher the price. Silk (instead of wool) makes the price 3-4x higher. A fairly low knot count (about 100 kpi) Shiraz rug of about that size would run somewhere between $1300-$5000 most likely. If you hunt around I would expect a "great deal" to be ~$1000. Here's an example of a Shiraz-style rug with 140kpi. http://esalerugs.com/red-5x8-shiraz-lori-persian-rug-110905317 http://esalerugs.com/red-5x8-shiraz-lori-persian-rug-1109053... Once you get into higher knot counts (300+ kpi) the price increases very quickly as well. But I personally think it's important to see what that knot count difference looks like in person. There's a very big perceptual jump in quality and it's almost like going from 8-bit graphics to modern 4k in terms of how the design looks. An example: Here's a 150kpi Kashan rug $3300 http://esalerugs.com/red-10x13-kashan-persian-rug-110909188 http://esalerugs.com/red-10x13-kashan-persian-rug-110909188 and a 400kpi Kashan rug of similar design $13000 http://esalerugs.com/red-10x13-kashan-persian-rug-110906616 http://esalerugs.com/red-10x13-kashan-persian-rug-110906616 It's very hard to tell across the web, but 400kpi compared to 150kpi is night and day. I've seen high knot count silk rugs that were easily in the six figures.
DonHopkins 10y ago
I had a Persian rug mouse pad that I really enjoyed and got a lot of nice complements on. Just a dye-sublimation printed imitation, but it still looked and felt luxurious. I wonder if anyone makes real Persian mini-rugs that size, for doll houses perhaps?
- avree 10y ago
  http://www.amazon.com/Lextra®-MouseRug®-blues-white-10-25/dp/B000F6H0F2 http://www.amazon.com/Lextra®-MouseRug®-blues-white-10-25/dp... Was it this?
  - DonHopkins 10y ago
    That looks like it! I wrote a cellular automata that you can start with a symmetrical configuration, that I called a "Persian Rug Enumerator" because each frame looked like different Persian Rug! You could make a lot of unique mouse pads that way. https://youtu.be/nQQBmkmmCw4?t=4m55s https://youtu.be/nQQBmkmmCw4?t=4m55s
intrasight 10y ago
I do love beautiful, high quality Persian Rugs. But, alas, the wool makes me sneeze.
- danieltillett 10y ago
  They do make silk rugs, but it feels like a crime to walk on them.
  - otterley 10y ago
    A comfortable, luxurious crime indeed.
  - intrasight 10y ago
    Funny you mention that. We purchased a beautiful silk rug. Have it hanging on a wall.
the_rosentotter 10y ago
Nothing tells me U.S. official policy towards Iran is changing more than subtly favorable articles like this appearing in the New York Times.
- Altay- 10y ago
  "All the news that's fit to print!"
- metaphorm 10y ago
  they ran this piece on the same they ran an editorial denouncing the government of Saudi Arabia for exporting Wahabism. this is not subtle stuff.
eating_ice 10y ago
There are several reasons for the dying popularity of Persian carpets 1.Changes in tastes: beautiful though they are, they do not go with much of what passes for modern decor 2.The availability of substitutes: many other alternatives are available, including Finnish, Swedish, Danish,German, Indian, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Chinese carpets. 3.Concerns about authenticity. Was that "Persian carpet" made in Iran or in Turkey or in China ? 4. Transaction costs: carpet dealers in local shopping malls vary from dodgy to very dodgy. Some of them have had "going out of business sale" signs up for years. I know that they will try and rip me off. I do not want to waste time bargaining with them and trying to spot the genuine items in their stock.As for learning about knot-per-inch and all the terminology that goes with it, heck it is just something to put on my floor. 5. Here is a typical ad: "Retail Price: $7836 Online Discount Price: $3134 Price After Extra 50% Off: $1567" What is a fair price for this ? 1567 ? 567 ? 67 ? What does this even mean ? Sure sounds dodgy.

105 points by aaronbrethorst 10y ago

I feel conflicted about "Persian" rugs. So much child labor goes into making them that by buying one you are helping support a dispicable trade in human misery. At the same time they can be highly beautiful and practical. I have decided to take the same approach as with Ivory - old ivory is fine, but new Ivory is not. I have a few antique rugs that I really love, but I would not buy a new one.

sandworm101 10y ago
But unlike ivory, that cannot be made without dead elephants, it possible to create a Persian carpet without child labour. Children used to mine coal, but we still have coal. So we can still have Persian carpets. I used to live in the middle east and when I left I brought a medium-sized pile of them. They are great and very utilitarian. The one in my living room is nearly a hundred years old and has seen many generations of dogs, cats and in all probability goats. They can be cleaned an repaired in a way rare for modern products.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- danieltillett 10y ago
  Sure, but it is really hard to ensure this as a consumer. Most rugs don't come with a label "made with slave labor". By only buying old you get to avoid supporting continued abuses while still having an item of beauty and practicality.
  - the_rosentotter 10y ago
    A lot of the stuff you use every day is made with what is practically slave labor, often child labor too. Not that it makes it any better, but there is no reason to single out rugs.
wfunction 10y ago
Do you have any links that support the idea that child labor is a major part of the labor and that said children are actually living in misery?
- ggggtez 10y ago
  Are you suggesting it's possible to have child labor where the children don't live in misery? I think that's historically unprecedented.
  - colechristensen 10y ago
    I grew up on a farm in Iowa, spent much of my youth working, and wouldn't describe it as misery.
  - wtbob 10y ago
    Growing up I knew a lot of families whose children worked in their restaurants. While — kids being kids — I'm sure that they would have told you that they were miserable, I don't think that they actually were. Honestly, is a kid who must work any more miserable than an adult who must work? The entire idea of childhood is a very recent invention, after all.
    - sandworm101 10y ago
      >> is a kid who must work any more miserable than an adult who must work? Yes, if that working deprives them of an education. Or if they work in conditions that an adult would not tolerate. Or if their pay is paid to someone else (ie parents renting out children). Or if their status as "children" or "wards" of their employers results in them having fewer rights than adults in the same employ.
      - wodenokoto 10y ago
        "yes, if" doesn't really make any sense to this type of question. Is it really better to be a man than a woman? Yes, if you're rich. Are dogs really worse than cats? Yes, if they have rabies. I think decent working conditions was more than implied by parent.
IOT_Apprentice 10y ago
Interesting there were no photos of children in the piece but rather men and mention of old women.
tn13 10y ago
"Misery" is a relative term. A 12 year old working in fields might seem harsh to an American but for an Indian or Bangladeshi kid that is an opportunity because the alternative is dying on the street devoid of any help. Many top American brands use the services of slum sweatshops in USA directly and indirectly and employ children in harsh conditions but this work is better than working as child prostitutes of beggars. Globalization helped these slum children get better, earn more and live a better life than in past even though as per American standards one might see it as a miserable life. Trading more and more with poor countries is the best way Americans can help the poor countries. People complain about China's sweatshops and work conditions but in reality Chinese are far better off than 30 years and and the labor value and conditions have improved steadily over last 3 decades.
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  That has nothing to do with the relativity of misery, it's just a testament to how miserable their other choices are.
  - iopq 10y ago
    Yes, but you would rather have them starve. I did some odd jobs as a teenager after school for cash, why is that a bad thing? Is work something that only adults can do?
    - pyre 10y ago
      > I did some odd jobs as a teenager after school for cash, why is that a bad thing? I think that this indicates a disconnect between your reality and theirs. Whether or not the work improves their condition, comparing what they live through with "doing odd jobs as a teenager for extra cash" sounds a bit like you're not living in reality.
      - iopq 10y ago
        Of course my reality is different. I just don't see why a teenager working is somehow abhorrent while an adult working is fine.
paulddraper 10y ago
It's tragic and should be fixed. But before you try to fix it with boycotts, remember that people in sweatshops are there because that is literally their best opportunity.
- danieltillett 10y ago
  I am not suggesting a boycott, just trying to come to a personal moral position I feel comfortable with.
  - Pyxl101 10y ago
    Immanuel Kant came up with an idea that's known as the categorical imperative. It is best known under the formulation: "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law." Have you heard of the Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics? I found it interesting to read about: https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-ethics/ https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth...
    - danieltillett 10y ago
      I am not sure I agree with Kant. There are many things I personally would do or not do, but which I don't feel should be universal. Good arguments can be made for buying new rugs, but I don't want to have something in my home which I feel might be helping perpetuate child slavery. This is just my personal moral judgement and not one I want to impose on anyone else.
      - icebraining 10y ago
        But does it perpetuate it, or help them escape it faster? My grandmothers both worked as children in Europe. Nowadays I'm a software developer who sits on his ass and complains if I'm working for than 8h/day. The same pattern seems to have been the norm in most (all?) developed countries.
venomsnake 10y ago
I think there is distinction between child labor and child exploitation for labor. In my summers as a kid I have done some agricultural work helping my parents and their friends. I was hard but rewarding (also hitting someone with a rotten potato - at age 8 - feels like watching Hamilton). And seeing the insane workload that some modern parents put on their kids for academic advancement - the line can get blurry. There is world of difference between a small family operation in which the kids help (which is what was presented in the article) and work you till your fingers bleed workshop. Kids have always provided labor - and misery there is optional. What we should look for is if the labor hurts the child or helps him and his family.
JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Citation?
codingdave 10y ago
I'm all for avoiding purchases of products that involve child labor. It is worth researching how pervasive that is, because many products manufactured overseas suffer from this problem. It is the main reason I buy into "Made in the USA." Not because I am overly patriotic (I'm not.), but because it improves the odds that child labor was not involved in its production.

sk5t 10y ago

Certainly a tangent, but can anyone share tips on where/how to pick up traditional wool rugs without getting taken for a ride? I get the distinct impression most vendors are buying way low and angling to sell way high...

bane 10y ago
We found ours, at all places, at a Lord & Taylor (or Nordstrom can't remember which one now) travelling rug show. List price was $11k, the show had it on "sale" for $4k we took advantage of a combined holiday sale and some other discounts (we signed up for a store credit card to get another 15% off of our first purchase) and after all the discounts stacked ended up paying around $2k. Internet prices put it at similar rugs at between $6k-$12k. Home Depot and a few other places have similar traveling rug shows. Harder to haggle at those vs. a rug store, but I feel like you get fairer pricing. The store "Homegoods" in the U.S. also has a rug section that will on occasion stock hand-made rugs at very good prices. I would personally avoid the dedicated dealers as they'll pump up the price and take advantage of uninformed consumers. Definitely worth it to study up a little on what contributes to pricing variability in rugs (location, material, knot density, etc.) If you travel, I've seen very good prices in and around the middle east (sounds obvious, but hey)
kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
Craigslist.
DonHopkins 10y ago
Without getting taken for a magic carpet ride? I say, take the ride!
adrianN 10y ago
Buy directly from a manufacturer. There are some smallish manufacturers in Germany, I'm sure your country has them too. For example http://www.allgaeuer-teppichmanufaktur.de/en.html http://www.allgaeuer-teppichmanufaktur.de/en.html
danieltillett 10y ago
I have bought all of mine at physical auctions. Once you go to a few you learn who the dealers are and bid just above them - they can only go to wholesale prices while you can go to retail. Just make sure they are not the one selling the rug in the first place - come in on the last possible moment tends to make it hard for them to shill bid you up.

bane 10y ago

We have a huge (10'x13') Antique Wool Persian Rug made in Kashan before the revolution. Not quite sure how old it is, but the dealer claimed it was likely first imported in the 1930s. We also have several cheaper machine-made Persian-style rugs from a few different places. The real one is the centerpiece of our entire house, and a treasure. It definitely has a quality and beauty that the machine-made ones don't possess. They're one-of-a-kind works of art. At some point it was repaired and there's a little difference in the dye colors where the patching was performed. Knowing it has some history really adds to the feeling of value. It's an antique you can walk and lay down on. If our home caught fire, I would probably grab my computer and that rug and leave the rest to burn. It completely transformed the room we put it in and brought it grace and character. The machine-made rugs we put furniture on top of and are already starting to fall apart in places, even the nicer one we paid lots of money for before we got smart. If you're patient and look around, you kind find them at fairly steep discounts, and now that the market is opening up, I expect the prices to drop even more. Our rug was appraised at something north of $15k, but we bought it for less than $2k. Quick checks on the internet show me similar rugs for around $6.5k. (here's one that looks superficially like ours http://esalerugs.com/red-palace-rugs-kashan-persian-rug-22199335# http://esalerugs.com/red-palace-rugs-kashan-persian-rug-2219...) When we decided to get a rug, we went through lots of research and shopping, finally decided on a Persian-style rug and hit rug markets and dealers all over our area. For us at least, the color schemes of the made-in-Iran rugs (over the often cheaper Pakistan, Turkish or Afghan handmade rugs) really was unmatched in hitting our taste. Sorry if this sounds like a commercial, but these really are special objects. It's a shame that there's so many middle-men in-between the weavers and the buyers, I'd much rather have paid the weavers directly, but stupid global politics get in the way. I'm very excited for the slowly thawing relations with Iran, there's so many really wonderful cultural things I'm hoping come exploding out of that country.

rmason 10y ago
My grandparents had Persian rugs imported in the 1920's that were simply beautiful. Hope some future Iranian enters YC and cuts out all the middlemen. It would be easy to offer premium prices to the best craftsmen and still offer attractive deals over the web to North America and Europe. Probably the only way I can afford one.

driverdan 10y ago

How much would their $400 6x9 rug cost in the US after markups? I'd love to have a few nice rugs but that price seems very low. I'm curious at what volume does it make sense to go there, buy, and ship back rather than buying ones that have already been imported.

bane 10y ago
It depends mostly on knot count and condition. Higher knots per inch, the higher the price. Silk (instead of wool) makes the price 3-4x higher. A fairly low knot count (about 100 kpi) Shiraz rug of about that size would run somewhere between $1300-$5000 most likely. If you hunt around I would expect a "great deal" to be ~$1000. Here's an example of a Shiraz-style rug with 140kpi. http://esalerugs.com/red-5x8-shiraz-lori-persian-rug-110905317 http://esalerugs.com/red-5x8-shiraz-lori-persian-rug-1109053... Once you get into higher knot counts (300+ kpi) the price increases very quickly as well. But I personally think it's important to see what that knot count difference looks like in person. There's a very big perceptual jump in quality and it's almost like going from 8-bit graphics to modern 4k in terms of how the design looks. An example: Here's a 150kpi Kashan rug $3300 http://esalerugs.com/red-10x13-kashan-persian-rug-110909188 http://esalerugs.com/red-10x13-kashan-persian-rug-110909188 and a 400kpi Kashan rug of similar design $13000 http://esalerugs.com/red-10x13-kashan-persian-rug-110906616 http://esalerugs.com/red-10x13-kashan-persian-rug-110906616 It's very hard to tell across the web, but 400kpi compared to 150kpi is night and day. I've seen high knot count silk rugs that were easily in the six figures.

DonHopkins 10y ago

I had a Persian rug mouse pad that I really enjoyed and got a lot of nice complements on. Just a dye-sublimation printed imitation, but it still looked and felt luxurious. I wonder if anyone makes real Persian mini-rugs that size, for doll houses perhaps?

avree 10y ago
http://www.amazon.com/Lextra®-MouseRug®-blues-white-10-25/dp/B000F6H0F2 http://www.amazon.com/Lextra®-MouseRug®-blues-white-10-25/dp... Was it this?
- DonHopkins 10y ago
  That looks like it! I wrote a cellular automata that you can start with a symmetrical configuration, that I called a "Persian Rug Enumerator" because each frame looked like different Persian Rug! You could make a lot of unique mouse pads that way. https://youtu.be/nQQBmkmmCw4?t=4m55s https://youtu.be/nQQBmkmmCw4?t=4m55s

intrasight 10y ago

I do love beautiful, high quality Persian Rugs. But, alas, the wool makes me sneeze.

danieltillett 10y ago
They do make silk rugs, but it feels like a crime to walk on them.
- otterley 10y ago
  A comfortable, luxurious crime indeed.
- intrasight 10y ago
  Funny you mention that. We purchased a beautiful silk rug. Have it hanging on a wall.

the_rosentotter 10y ago

Nothing tells me U.S. official policy towards Iran is changing more than subtly favorable articles like this appearing in the New York Times.

Altay- 10y ago
"All the news that's fit to print!"
metaphorm 10y ago
they ran this piece on the same they ran an editorial denouncing the government of Saudi Arabia for exporting Wahabism. this is not subtle stuff.

eating_ice 10y ago

There are several reasons for the dying popularity of Persian carpets 1.Changes in tastes: beautiful though they are, they do not go with much of what passes for modern decor 2.The availability of substitutes: many other alternatives are available, including Finnish, Swedish, Danish,German, Indian, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Chinese carpets. 3.Concerns about authenticity. Was that "Persian carpet" made in Iran or in Turkey or in China ? 4. Transaction costs: carpet dealers in local shopping malls vary from dodgy to very dodgy. Some of them have had "going out of business sale" signs up for years. I know that they will try and rip me off. I do not want to waste time bargaining with them and trying to spot the genuine items in their stock.As for learning about knot-per-inch and all the terminology that goes with it, heck it is just something to put on my floor. 5. Here is a typical ad: "Retail Price: $7836 Online Discount Price: $3134 Price After Extra 50% Off: $1567" What is a fair price for this ? 1567 ? 567 ? 67 ? What does this even mean ? Sure sounds dodgy.