4 ms·

Europe doesn't have the sort of ingrained racism that exists in the United States. For example: > Despite similar rates of drug use, black people are nearly fo

by danudey 10y ago

Europe doesn't have the sort of ingrained racism that exists in the United States. For example: > Despite similar rates of drug use, black people are nearly four times as likely to be arrested for marijuana use,⁴ and black males are often given longer sentences for crimes than their white peers.⁵ [ from https://medium.com/@dan_nott/what-is-mass-incarceration-ff737196580 https://medium.com/@dan_nott/what-is-mass-incarceration-ff73... ] Likewise, women tend to make significantly less money for doing the same work, in the same positions, at the same company, because of (largely) subconscious biases. So called 'affirmative action' movements and diversity pledges are a direct response to the acknowledgement of our unconscious biases. If you know that you're 20% more likely to judge a candidate as unfit just because of the colour of their skin or the sound of their name, then that means that, over time, you're losing out on a lot of talented candidates. Likewise, if you're less likely to fairly evaluate a woman's performance or contributions, then you're going to promote talent to positions of leadership or management less often, meaning you're not going to put your best people in those positions. Lastly, diversity is important. You don't get anywhere by looking at only one viewpoint. Look at the state of American media right now: you have tons of content on Fox News that repeats the same few lines as facts, and they've all convinced themselves that it's true because they hear it everywhere. With that environment, why would anyone consider a different fact? When you're surrounded by people who have the same experiences with you, the same viewpoints as you, the same background as you, the same friends as you, you're never going to learn anything. It's when we surround ourselves with people different to us that we grow and learn. We start to see things from other points of view, we learn about new experiences that we didn't have growing up. We create new collaborations that build on our different backgrounds to produce something that feels new, and not just a retreading of existing works. In other words, the reason for forcing diversity is to both counter our own (and others') conscious and subconscious biases, as well as to ensure that you're exposing people to as many new and differing viewpoints as possible (and, in turn, taking those viewpoints seriously), so that you have more resources to build from, which makes for a more robust environment.

towlejunior 10y ago
>Europe doesn't have the sort of ingrained racism that exists in the United States. Who's throwing bananas at their black soccer players?
- xamolxix 10y ago
  It's called football
vacri 10y ago
> Europe doesn't have the sort of ingrained racism that exists in the United States O_o There's plenty of ingrained racism in Europe. From constant and persistent jokes about the French in the UK, to the French hamlet called "Death to Jews" that only recently changed it's name, to the consistently poor treatment of Romany people in most places, right up to the ethnic cleansing of the former Yugoslavia in recent memory, there's plenty of ingrained racism in Europe.
yarper 10y ago
> Likewise, women tend to make significantly less money for doing the same work, in the same positions, at the same company, because of (largely) subconscious biases. I see this everywhere, and yet no citations (and when asked, I usually get referred to someones blog - not from a respected scientist completely unaffiliated with the feminist movement). Either that or I get linked to 4 or 5 default papers which have little reference to the claim. People need to accept that bold statements like this are absolutely not excluded from burden of proof - and what's more if you live in the UK (I expect much of Europe) it's time to speak up, it's illegal to pay less based on gender. The usual problem with this is, that the actual fact is that women earn less than men on average. That's kind of a crazy comparison - software developers earn less on average to CEOs, on average sewage workers earn less than those in hedge funds and so on. It assumes fairly boldly that women and men operate in equal proportions in every industry (which is false). In another note, just by writing this I'm opening myself to someone telling me to check my privilege, which is a codified way to tell me as a white male there's some secret sauce I can't possibly know about (so should be quiet on the issue). The deepest irony is that this behaviour is exactly what the movement was designed to disassemble.
- pessimizer 10y ago
  I'm going to tell you to check your privilege, which is a codified way of telling you that if you were really concerned about whether there was a gender pay gap, you'd look for the research yourself instead of waiting for somebody to hand it to you. If you were either familiar with the existing research and saw flaws in it, or were familiar with better evidence that contradicted the accepted wisdom, your statements about the burden of proof would be a lot more interesting and sound a lot less like whining. It's not the world's duty to convince you of anything. I'm not even going to refer you to a blog - go to scholar.google.com and search for "gender pay gap." Follow the citations. You should also do that if you're not sure if racism exists, or if other planets exist. Then instead of trying to one-up people on message boards when they won't do your research for you, you can lead in whatever direction your research takes you. Also, nobody knows you're a white male on the internet until you broadcast it.
  - 10y ago
almostApatriot1 10y ago
Europe has a different type of racism though. There's a reason why the Muslims there become extremists but stuff like that almost never happens in the USA.
- joseph1337 10y ago
  Yeah those damn Christians blowing up the WTC, trying to shoot up a drawing contest, blowing up people in Boston, etc. Islam is a religion of peace, I'm glad that you see it!
- HelloNurse 10y ago
  Among the reasons, you can walk and hitchhike from Iraq and Syria to central Europe, but not to the USA; and you have a chance (only a chance) to reach Lampedusa or Pantelleria from Lybia in a dangerously overloaded disposable boat, but not to cross the Atlantic ocean. Muslims in the USA typically got there by plane, with a visa; this is enough to filter, from the mass of generic Muslims, non-angry respectable middle class people instead of the mostly desperate, very poor and often illegal refugees and immigrants we get in Europe.
joseph1337 10y ago
It would be good if the article took into account if the blacks had other felonies in their history. >Likewise, women tend to make significantly less money for doing the same work This has been debunked many times, women usually don't take overtime and generally work less than men. On a per-hour basis they make basically the same, many times a tad more. The rest of your comment about "diversity" (reducing the number of whites) is basically typical leftist-kumbaya BS with no data to support it.
paloaltokid 10y ago
Europe has plenty of ingrained racism. I was born there and I can tell you for a fact that racism is alive and well in Europe.
cb18 10y ago
Despite similar rates of drug use, black people are nearly four times as likely to be arrested for marijuana use This can be pretty obviously understood as the result of compound charges, of which the drug charge is a minor component. Bear with me, facts incoming... Black people, particularly young black males commit crimes at a much higher rate than other groups. In committing these other crimes and then being arrested, a certain percentage of them happen to have a bag of weed in their pocket, which then gets tacked on as an accessory charge. Before anyone wants to argue about the objective and carefully tabulated crime rates. No, whites don't just get away with more of the petty, street, and violent crime we are discussing, race ratios of victim reports match those of arrests. women tend to make significantly less money for doing the same work, in the same positions, at the same company, because of (largely) subconscious biases. No, because of intentionally faulty statistics to calculate such things. The gender wage gap uses bogus statistics - Christina Hoff Sommers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58arQIr882w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58arQIr882w https://www.google.com/search?q=milo+wage+gap https://www.google.com/search?q=milo+wage+gap If women are doing the same work as men and accepting significantly lower pay to do so, why aren't companies tripping over themselves in trying to hire all women staffs and significantly reduce costs? diversity is important. "Diversity" in the sense it is used in social policy(for some reason only in the west, no one is harping on Japan, or Saudi Arabia, or Angola about diversity) is harmful and destructive to otherwise healthy societies. We show that ethnic diversity or fractionalization and values diversity are distinct and while the former has a negative effect on innovation, the latter contributes positively. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13504851.2015.1130785 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13504851.2015.11... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and_trust_within_communities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and... Diversity DESTROYS Social Cohesion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTROCGb5qj8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTROCGb5qj8 "Diversity is our Strength" ^ watch that as well as to ensure that you're exposing people to as many new and differing viewpoints as possible (and, in turn, taking those viewpoints seriously) Actually, historically successful societies have pretty refined heuristics for what to take seriously and it has served them well. It is absurd to say we should take all viewpoints seriously. How are you defining 'viewpoint', and 'seriously'? What does it mean to take seriously the viewpoints common in Islam that -- gay people should be persecuted, to the point of being thrown off buildings, stoned to death, or beheaded? family members should kill other family members in the name of 'honor'? murdering non-believers is acceptable? How seriously do you take these viewpoints? Were NASA hindered in their mission to get to the moon in the 1960s because it was a bunch of white guys with viewpoints grounded in careful observation, excelling at math and science and a kind of boundary pushing audaciousness that seems quite particular to men of European descent?

by danudey 10y ago

towlejunior 10y ago

>Europe doesn't have the sort of ingrained racism that exists in the United States. Who's throwing bananas at their black soccer players?

xamolxix 10y ago
It's called football

vacri 10y ago

> Europe doesn't have the sort of ingrained racism that exists in the United States O_o There's plenty of ingrained racism in Europe. From constant and persistent jokes about the French in the UK, to the French hamlet called "Death to Jews" that only recently changed it's name, to the consistently poor treatment of Romany people in most places, right up to the ethnic cleansing of the former Yugoslavia in recent memory, there's plenty of ingrained racism in Europe.

yarper 10y ago

> Likewise, women tend to make significantly less money for doing the same work, in the same positions, at the same company, because of (largely) subconscious biases. I see this everywhere, and yet no citations (and when asked, I usually get referred to someones blog - not from a respected scientist completely unaffiliated with the feminist movement). Either that or I get linked to 4 or 5 default papers which have little reference to the claim. People need to accept that bold statements like this are absolutely not excluded from burden of proof - and what's more if you live in the UK (I expect much of Europe) it's time to speak up, it's illegal to pay less based on gender. The usual problem with this is, that the actual fact is that women earn less than men on average. That's kind of a crazy comparison - software developers earn less on average to CEOs, on average sewage workers earn less than those in hedge funds and so on. It assumes fairly boldly that women and men operate in equal proportions in every industry (which is false). In another note, just by writing this I'm opening myself to someone telling me to check my privilege, which is a codified way to tell me as a white male there's some secret sauce I can't possibly know about (so should be quiet on the issue). The deepest irony is that this behaviour is exactly what the movement was designed to disassemble.

pessimizer 10y ago
I'm going to tell you to check your privilege, which is a codified way of telling you that if you were really concerned about whether there was a gender pay gap, you'd look for the research yourself instead of waiting for somebody to hand it to you. If you were either familiar with the existing research and saw flaws in it, or were familiar with better evidence that contradicted the accepted wisdom, your statements about the burden of proof would be a lot more interesting and sound a lot less like whining. It's not the world's duty to convince you of anything. I'm not even going to refer you to a blog - go to scholar.google.com and search for "gender pay gap." Follow the citations. You should also do that if you're not sure if racism exists, or if other planets exist. Then instead of trying to one-up people on message boards when they won't do your research for you, you can lead in whatever direction your research takes you. Also, nobody knows you're a white male on the internet until you broadcast it.
- 10y ago

almostApatriot1 10y ago

Europe has a different type of racism though. There's a reason why the Muslims there become extremists but stuff like that almost never happens in the USA.

joseph1337 10y ago
Yeah those damn Christians blowing up the WTC, trying to shoot up a drawing contest, blowing up people in Boston, etc. Islam is a religion of peace, I'm glad that you see it!
HelloNurse 10y ago
Among the reasons, you can walk and hitchhike from Iraq and Syria to central Europe, but not to the USA; and you have a chance (only a chance) to reach Lampedusa or Pantelleria from Lybia in a dangerously overloaded disposable boat, but not to cross the Atlantic ocean. Muslims in the USA typically got there by plane, with a visa; this is enough to filter, from the mass of generic Muslims, non-angry respectable middle class people instead of the mostly desperate, very poor and often illegal refugees and immigrants we get in Europe.

joseph1337 10y ago

It would be good if the article took into account if the blacks had other felonies in their history. >Likewise, women tend to make significantly less money for doing the same work This has been debunked many times, women usually don't take overtime and generally work less than men. On a per-hour basis they make basically the same, many times a tad more. The rest of your comment about "diversity" (reducing the number of whites) is basically typical leftist-kumbaya BS with no data to support it.

paloaltokid 10y ago

Europe has plenty of ingrained racism. I was born there and I can tell you for a fact that racism is alive and well in Europe.

cb18 10y ago

Despite similar rates of drug use, black people are nearly four times as likely to be arrested for marijuana use This can be pretty obviously understood as the result of compound charges, of which the drug charge is a minor component. Bear with me, facts incoming... Black people, particularly young black males commit crimes at a much higher rate than other groups. In committing these other crimes and then being arrested, a certain percentage of them happen to have a bag of weed in their pocket, which then gets tacked on as an accessory charge. Before anyone wants to argue about the objective and carefully tabulated crime rates. No, whites don't just get away with more of the petty, street, and violent crime we are discussing, race ratios of victim reports match those of arrests. women tend to make significantly less money for doing the same work, in the same positions, at the same company, because of (largely) subconscious biases. No, because of intentionally faulty statistics to calculate such things. The gender wage gap uses bogus statistics - Christina Hoff Sommers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58arQIr882w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58arQIr882w https://www.google.com/search?q=milo+wage+gap https://www.google.com/search?q=milo+wage+gap If women are doing the same work as men and accepting significantly lower pay to do so, why aren't companies tripping over themselves in trying to hire all women staffs and significantly reduce costs? diversity is important. "Diversity" in the sense it is used in social policy(for some reason only in the west, no one is harping on Japan, or Saudi Arabia, or Angola about diversity) is harmful and destructive to otherwise healthy societies. We show that ethnic diversity or fractionalization and values diversity are distinct and while the former has a negative effect on innovation, the latter contributes positively. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13504851.2015.1130785 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13504851.2015.11... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and_trust_within_communities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and... Diversity DESTROYS Social Cohesion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTROCGb5qj8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTROCGb5qj8 "Diversity is our Strength" ^ watch that as well as to ensure that you're exposing people to as many new and differing viewpoints as possible (and, in turn, taking those viewpoints seriously) Actually, historically successful societies have pretty refined heuristics for what to take seriously and it has served them well. It is absurd to say we should take all viewpoints seriously. How are you defining 'viewpoint', and 'seriously'? What does it mean to take seriously the viewpoints common in Islam that -- gay people should be persecuted, to the point of being thrown off buildings, stoned to death, or beheaded? family members should kill other family members in the name of 'honor'? murdering non-believers is acceptable? How seriously do you take these viewpoints? Were NASA hindered in their mission to get to the moon in the 1960s because it was a bunch of white guys with viewpoints grounded in careful observation, excelling at math and science and a kind of boundary pushing audaciousness that seems quite particular to men of European descent?