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Ever since Zach Holman "left", it appears as though GitHub has been eaten away from the inside by intersectional feminism. There appear to be subversive efforts

by brbsix 10y ago

Ever since Zach Holman "left", it appears as though GitHub has been eaten away from the inside by intersectional feminism. There appear to be subversive efforts to turn tech companies into platforms for social justice. I can only imagine it must be really uncomfortable to work in this sort of environment.

djtriptych 10y ago
Slightly less comfortable for the most-privileged people on earth; probably more comfortable for everyone else. cf. Every other American industry's initial foray into diversity.
- PeCaN 10y ago
  Personally, I don't think I would be very comfortable knowing I was hired because company X has to meet diversity quotas and not solely because I was the best candidate for the job. I think it's an offense to hackers in general—I'm hired based on merit.
  - clevernickname 10y ago
    This is where affirmative action is a step backwards. The unconscious assumption goes from "they're an X in this field, they have to be good" to "they're an X in this field, they're probably just here to fill a quota" and makes matters worse for everybody.
- dijit 10y ago
  Oh, it's fine that it's racist, because I as a white male have it so good? Seems odd to me mate, there are things that being white certainly doesn't buy, it's not a ticket to middle-class. Being cis doesn't make me any more worse at my job than being gay would, don't judge me on that merit it's bullshit. FWIW I grew up incredibly poor and my "advantage" in IT was that people don't care about your background. If I had wanted to be a lawyer or doctor I would bet my life that I would have failed. Tech is definitely inclusive as hell by default and making it less so is rather stupid. If there are people who are actively stopping women in tech or downplaying them then those people are at fault, I would argue as at fault as a company that wont interview me based on my skin colour or gender.
  - mynameisvlad 10y ago
    > Being cis doesn't make me any more worse at my job than being gay would Gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same thing.
    - dijit 10y ago
      Ok... My point was really: > In my opinion being heterosexual does not make me better or worse at my job in IT than being homosexual.
  - balls187 10y ago
    > Seems odd to me mate, there are things that being white certainly doesn't buy, it's not a ticket to middle-class. Perhaps not. But there are things that being white does grant you: 1. Police won't hassle you for driving a nice car. 2. Police won't hassle you for walking in a nice neighborhood. 3. People won't report you as "suspicious looking" for wearing a hoodie and walking in a neighborhood. 4. Police won't be as likely to use force to resolve a situation. 5. People will be less likely to have negative assumptions about your career, your intelligence, and your capabilities. // Being white is not a ticket to success, but it's not a hindrance either. That's the difference.
    - Futurebot 10y ago
      Exactly. This is a frequently misunderstood set of points. Having non-economic privileges does not automatically make you wealthy or even non-poor, and it doesn't automatically give you the best jobs or even any job. Some non-econ privileges are also relative not just to each other, but to each other in a geographic sense (skin color privilege helps you a lot more in Atlanta than in a town in Appalachia, for example.) What it can do, for example, is help keep you from getting shot by the police on the way to your interview.
      - balls187 10y ago
        > Having non-economic privileges I can't stand referring to my comment as "white privilege." It's just another way to discount a person simply because of their race. Being white is like starting a race at the starting line. Being black can be like starting that same race 10 feet back. Starting at the starting line, isn't a privilege--it's just how a race should be, in order to be fair for everyone participating. What it also means is that being black means you just have to run faster to win. > What it can do, for example, is help keep you from getting shot by the police on the way to your interview. Which we should solve the problem, not badger whites to feel guilty by calling it a privilege.
- jshevek 10y ago
  No. Giving irrational ideologues structural power in the workplace can make any thinking person uncomfortable, regardless of their privilege points.
siegecraft 10y ago
There was an interesting write-up on this by Hintjens at http://hintjens.com/blog:111 http://hintjens.com/blog:111
millstone 10y ago
GitHub is definitely focusing more on social justice than any company its size. Maybe it pushes out some employees, but ultimately allows GitHub to hire from a larger pool of developers. They attract the best and succeed in the market. Diversity and a social justice focus is proven to make a company more successful, and historically marginalized groups are inspired by the GitHub leadership. A great outcome. On the other hand, maybe it becomes a significant distraction from the business side. The "social impact team" increases its influence, and the culture becomes one of fear of saying the wrong thing or offending the wrong person. Employees leave, and are difficult to replace due to the negative reputation of the internal culture. The company fails. Whatever the outcome, it's a great experiment and we're sure to learn something.

by brbsix 10y ago

djtriptych 10y ago

Slightly less comfortable for the most-privileged people on earth; probably more comfortable for everyone else. cf. Every other American industry's initial foray into diversity.

PeCaN 10y ago
Personally, I don't think I would be very comfortable knowing I was hired because company X has to meet diversity quotas and not solely because I was the best candidate for the job. I think it's an offense to hackers in general—I'm hired based on merit.
- clevernickname 10y ago
  This is where affirmative action is a step backwards. The unconscious assumption goes from "they're an X in this field, they have to be good" to "they're an X in this field, they're probably just here to fill a quota" and makes matters worse for everybody.
dijit 10y ago
Oh, it's fine that it's racist, because I as a white male have it so good? Seems odd to me mate, there are things that being white certainly doesn't buy, it's not a ticket to middle-class. Being cis doesn't make me any more worse at my job than being gay would, don't judge me on that merit it's bullshit. FWIW I grew up incredibly poor and my "advantage" in IT was that people don't care about your background. If I had wanted to be a lawyer or doctor I would bet my life that I would have failed. Tech is definitely inclusive as hell by default and making it less so is rather stupid. If there are people who are actively stopping women in tech or downplaying them then those people are at fault, I would argue as at fault as a company that wont interview me based on my skin colour or gender.
- mynameisvlad 10y ago
  > Being cis doesn't make me any more worse at my job than being gay would Gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same thing.
  - dijit 10y ago
    Ok... My point was really: > In my opinion being heterosexual does not make me better or worse at my job in IT than being homosexual.
- balls187 10y ago
  > Seems odd to me mate, there are things that being white certainly doesn't buy, it's not a ticket to middle-class. Perhaps not. But there are things that being white does grant you: 1. Police won't hassle you for driving a nice car. 2. Police won't hassle you for walking in a nice neighborhood. 3. People won't report you as "suspicious looking" for wearing a hoodie and walking in a neighborhood. 4. Police won't be as likely to use force to resolve a situation. 5. People will be less likely to have negative assumptions about your career, your intelligence, and your capabilities. // Being white is not a ticket to success, but it's not a hindrance either. That's the difference.
  - Futurebot 10y ago
    Exactly. This is a frequently misunderstood set of points. Having non-economic privileges does not automatically make you wealthy or even non-poor, and it doesn't automatically give you the best jobs or even any job. Some non-econ privileges are also relative not just to each other, but to each other in a geographic sense (skin color privilege helps you a lot more in Atlanta than in a town in Appalachia, for example.) What it can do, for example, is help keep you from getting shot by the police on the way to your interview.
    - balls187 10y ago
      > Having non-economic privileges I can't stand referring to my comment as "white privilege." It's just another way to discount a person simply because of their race. Being white is like starting a race at the starting line. Being black can be like starting that same race 10 feet back. Starting at the starting line, isn't a privilege--it's just how a race should be, in order to be fair for everyone participating. What it also means is that being black means you just have to run faster to win. > What it can do, for example, is help keep you from getting shot by the police on the way to your interview. Which we should solve the problem, not badger whites to feel guilty by calling it a privilege.
jshevek 10y ago
No. Giving irrational ideologues structural power in the workplace can make any thinking person uncomfortable, regardless of their privilege points.

siegecraft 10y ago

There was an interesting write-up on this by Hintjens at http://hintjens.com/blog:111 http://hintjens.com/blog:111

millstone 10y ago

GitHub is definitely focusing more on social justice than any company its size. Maybe it pushes out some employees, but ultimately allows GitHub to hire from a larger pool of developers. They attract the best and succeed in the market. Diversity and a social justice focus is proven to make a company more successful, and historically marginalized groups are inspired by the GitHub leadership. A great outcome. On the other hand, maybe it becomes a significant distraction from the business side. The "social impact team" increases its influence, and the culture becomes one of fear of saying the wrong thing or offending the wrong person. Employees leave, and are difficult to replace due to the negative reputation of the internal culture. The company fails. Whatever the outcome, it's a great experiment and we're sure to learn something.