6 ms·

Gigster Fund – Freelancers Benefit When the Company and Clients Do Well

81 points by quackware 10y ago

shivam2501 10y ago
This is new and something which differentiates them from other freelance networks. Looking forward to see how it rolls out.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
polishninja 10y ago
It looks like Gigster will invest (money, time?) in some companies from a predetermined fund, not Gigster itself. In turn, they will share 1% of their fund equity with all Gigster developers who were active at the time, paying out when a fund company or Gigster liquidity event occurs. They will allocate rights to returns to active Gigster developers over a 1 to 5 year period. It looks like, as a Gigster developer, you would get 1%/total active Gigster developers. If there were 500 Gigster developers over that 1 to 5 year period, you'd get 1%/500 = 0.002% of a liquidity event depending on Gigster's weighting mechanism. If Gigster's equity stake was 20% in a company that exited for $100 million, you'd receive maybe $40,000 depending on how Gigster determines your weighted percentage. It's not really even the same league as a 401k or pension, contrary to what the page says. Calling it equity is a bit confusing. On the page it states at the top: "Gigster Fund provides our freelancers with access to equity from Gigster and select companies in our client portfolio." At the bottom it states with regards to owning equity: "No. Direct equity ownership or indirect ownership through a limited partnership has complex tax & legal implications, and the SEC limits the number of shareholders a corporation may have which would make direct ownership impossible after a certain number of freelancers". And "No. Direct equity ownership or indirect ownership through a limited partnership has complex tax and legal implications. In the United States, for example, Gigsters would be required by law to be accredited investors."
- forgotpwtomain 10y ago
  > 1%/500 = 0.002% That would make it 0.00002 > Gigster's equity stake was 20% in a company that exited for $100 million, you'd receive maybe $40,000 So $400 not 40K. Even a 1 billion exit would only net you 4k, assuming your interpretation is correct.
- andruby 10y ago
  > If Gigster's equity stake was 20% in a company that exited for $100 million. Gigster's stake is 20M. They share 1% with freelancers, which is 200K. You get 1/500th of this = $400. Amazingly generous!
  - PeterProlific 10y ago
    How could they possibly get 20% of a company?
    - gk1 10y ago
      My guess: the type of company that would outsource development to Gigster is the type of company that would give up 20% of equity. Or: the example scenario is too generous, which means a more probable payout would be even lower.
      - PeterProlific 10y ago
        Yes. This is what I was thinking. What are they really giving to companies to deserve that kind of share? AI engine or not, the only metric that matters are success stories. Without it, all of these numbers are meaningless.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
merpnderp 10y ago
Are there really tons of companies hiring freelancers to make map, music and messaging apps at ~$40k/4 months?
- acconrad 10y ago
  I considered being a gigster between jobs, and when I realized most people made between $5-10k/mo working full time I turned off my account.
  - ctvo 10y ago
    Are you saying it's too low? That seems to be in range with average developer salary.
  - rco8786 10y ago
    How did you realize that? Most people on there were making ~10k/month full time last I was on there(a couple months ago). I did one small project, about a week's worth of time, and was paid $3k.
- gk1 10y ago
  I imagine it's the same companies hiring freelancers off Upwork and other such sites. They're looking for the cheapest possible labor, and quality comes second.
- dejv 10y ago
  well, there are tons of active projects all the time. Scope, size and quality of those projects vary a lot, but they do exists.
  - merpnderp 10y ago
    I must be sheltered in my corporate job, but I can't imagine companies shelling out half a years programming wages for yet another messaging app. I can't think of the use case for a one off messaging app that isn't fulfilled by the plethora of existing options.
orthoganol 10y ago
I was always turned off by the language Gigster uses which makes me wonder about the kind of people they are: "Talent pedigree - 1%", "Hire All- Stars", "Marquee Investors" That aside, I'm not really interested in more hand-holding-as-a-service, this time aimed at us consulting developers.
gk1 10y ago
As a freelancer (consultant), no thanks. This looks like yet another platform that commoditizes freelancers (think Upwork). The belittling name "gigster" doesn't help. If you're a freelancer/consultant who wants equity, ask for it. Some companies are willing to give non-qualified options (the only choice, really) after you've built up a relationship and if you're making a significant contribution to the company. Also, I've read the page top-to-bottom and still not fully clear on what's happening here. Highly suggest running this by non-insiders and rephrasing the messaging until it's easier to understand.
- RaitoBezarius 10y ago
  FYI, Gigster is absolutely not Upwork or Upwork-like, this is amusing misconception that all people have about Gigster. If you're a freelancer asking for equity, you'll give up some of your payment. Gigster is not saying AFAIK: we cut some of your pay in exchange for some equity. Again, AFAIK, Gigster is clearly saying: The more you make customers happy and engaged in your gigs, the more you will earn equity from companies of the Gigster Fund. (I speak as a Gigster which was also using Upwork before, so I'm biased but I believe in Gigster and I am happy to tell people about it.)
  - frakkingcylons 10y ago
    Can you elaborate on how Gigster is not like Upwork?
    - RaitoBezarius 10y ago
      Glad you asked it. Upwork is a race to the bottom, the cheapest developer gets the project, at the cost... of the quality and experience. Gigster is more realistic, I don't know how much I can talk about this. We are working with a team of fellow Gigsters, and we work together to estimate fairly the project. We are obviously against the race to the bottom, and we desire cool or interesting projects. Fairly means: Developer is happy with the quote, the timeline / timeframe and the scope. Product Manager is ready to help his team to achieve this project with a happy customer and a happy team. Of course, we do have problems sometimes. But Gigster happiness, that means: Product Managers, Developers and Designers is crucial and I feel it personally. Finally, I will say it bluntly: I am a developer, and I am not paid 40 $ / hour to produce a stupid idea which will change the world. If you want more information, I think that a Gigster employee can explain more about his experience. (sorry for the unstructured explanation!)
keithnz 10y ago
Not quite sure about their terms and conditions. Seems very pervasive
PeterProlific 10y ago
This sounds great but it seems that they do more corporate work. Can't see freelancers retiring on a miniscule % of a muslim dating app. You'd think with all the quality devs being purported that there'd have to be something of quality in there although the portfolio so far is YAWN!
rabble 10y ago
Does gigster have anything real at all? There are no gigs at all listed on their site... just a few full time jobs in SF, plus things for working on gigster itself. Seems like it might be a lean startup trick of painting the sky blue to try and build both sides of a marketplace.
- quackware 10y ago
  There are hundreds of gigsters and hundreds of gigs / completed projects. I can speak from experience that yes, it is all very real.
koolba 10y ago
From the article, emphasis mine: > This allows our freelancers to receive tangible rewards for their hard work building incredible software, and helps them prepare for the future. Wouldn't simplify paying a freelancer be a tangible reward? And if you're not paying them then they're not really freelancers, they're either interns or suckers (or both). > Will every Gigster Fund company yield a successful return? No. Although some startup companies yield extraordinary financial returns, many fail. Ha! Great way to spin "The majority of this will be worthless ... but you buy Powerball tickets too right?"
- quackware 10y ago
  This isn't an all or nothing kind of deal. It's an extra incentive for gigster freelancers to do amazing work (besides the great project estimates / rates they have).
  - koolba 10y ago
    > This isn't an all or nothing kind of deal. It's an extra incentive for gigster freelancers to do amazing work (besides the great project estimates / rates they have). Maybe not all or nothing but this would end up just like a startup offering equity as compensation. They'd argue that they can pay you less (vs. straight cash for services) because you've got this equity piece as well.
    - quackware 10y ago
      Agreed. As a freelancer that works with Gigster I don't see this as a major source of revenue in my future (most likely a way to generate good PR as another poster mentioned). If they ever use this as leverage to pay less per project then I'm sure a lot of the best developers on the platform will move elsewhere.
- rco8786 10y ago
  This is in addition to normal pay, you understand that right? Your comments about equity can be applied to anyone working for any startup, so what's your point? I did some work for gigster a few months ago just to try it out. It was a breath of fresh air compared to upwork/elance/etc. Average pay for engineers was around $100/hr.
bazqux2 10y ago
Giving people a very small stake in their work adds much greater inventive than cost. That alone is a good idea (See Starbucks). Emotions trump math - even for programmers. I expect the confusing terms are intenional to make the math harder. But... this is the same company that was giving out work quotes in less than 10 minutes. I expect gigsters existence is subsidized by VC investment and it will be unable to succeed long term. I'm not expecting good things for anyone involved.

81 points by quackware 10y ago

This is new and something which differentiates them from other freelance networks. Looking forward to see how it rolls out.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

polishninja 10y ago

It looks like Gigster will invest (money, time?) in some companies from a predetermined fund, not Gigster itself. In turn, they will share 1% of their fund equity with all Gigster developers who were active at the time, paying out when a fund company or Gigster liquidity event occurs. They will allocate rights to returns to active Gigster developers over a 1 to 5 year period. It looks like, as a Gigster developer, you would get 1%/total active Gigster developers. If there were 500 Gigster developers over that 1 to 5 year period, you'd get 1%/500 = 0.002% of a liquidity event depending on Gigster's weighting mechanism. If Gigster's equity stake was 20% in a company that exited for $100 million, you'd receive maybe $40,000 depending on how Gigster determines your weighted percentage. It's not really even the same league as a 401k or pension, contrary to what the page says. Calling it equity is a bit confusing. On the page it states at the top: "Gigster Fund provides our freelancers with access to equity from Gigster and select companies in our client portfolio." At the bottom it states with regards to owning equity: "No. Direct equity ownership or indirect ownership through a limited partnership has complex tax & legal implications, and the SEC limits the number of shareholders a corporation may have which would make direct ownership impossible after a certain number of freelancers". And "No. Direct equity ownership or indirect ownership through a limited partnership has complex tax and legal implications. In the United States, for example, Gigsters would be required by law to be accredited investors."

forgotpwtomain 10y ago
> 1%/500 = 0.002% That would make it 0.00002 > Gigster's equity stake was 20% in a company that exited for $100 million, you'd receive maybe $40,000 So $400 not 40K. Even a 1 billion exit would only net you 4k, assuming your interpretation is correct.
andruby 10y ago
> If Gigster's equity stake was 20% in a company that exited for $100 million. Gigster's stake is 20M. They share 1% with freelancers, which is 200K. You get 1/500th of this = $400. Amazingly generous!
- PeterProlific 10y ago
  How could they possibly get 20% of a company?
  - gk1 10y ago
    My guess: the type of company that would outsource development to Gigster is the type of company that would give up 20% of equity. Or: the example scenario is too generous, which means a more probable payout would be even lower.
    - PeterProlific 10y ago
      Yes. This is what I was thinking. What are they really giving to companies to deserve that kind of share? AI engine or not, the only metric that matters are success stories. Without it, all of these numbers are meaningless.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

merpnderp 10y ago

Are there really tons of companies hiring freelancers to make map, music and messaging apps at ~$40k/4 months?

acconrad 10y ago
I considered being a gigster between jobs, and when I realized most people made between $5-10k/mo working full time I turned off my account.
- ctvo 10y ago
  Are you saying it's too low? That seems to be in range with average developer salary.
- rco8786 10y ago
  How did you realize that? Most people on there were making ~10k/month full time last I was on there(a couple months ago). I did one small project, about a week's worth of time, and was paid $3k.
gk1 10y ago
I imagine it's the same companies hiring freelancers off Upwork and other such sites. They're looking for the cheapest possible labor, and quality comes second.
dejv 10y ago
well, there are tons of active projects all the time. Scope, size and quality of those projects vary a lot, but they do exists.
- merpnderp 10y ago
  I must be sheltered in my corporate job, but I can't imagine companies shelling out half a years programming wages for yet another messaging app. I can't think of the use case for a one off messaging app that isn't fulfilled by the plethora of existing options.

orthoganol 10y ago

I was always turned off by the language Gigster uses which makes me wonder about the kind of people they are: "Talent pedigree - 1%", "Hire All- Stars", "Marquee Investors" That aside, I'm not really interested in more hand-holding-as-a-service, this time aimed at us consulting developers.

gk1 10y ago

As a freelancer (consultant), no thanks. This looks like yet another platform that commoditizes freelancers (think Upwork). The belittling name "gigster" doesn't help. If you're a freelancer/consultant who wants equity, ask for it. Some companies are willing to give non-qualified options (the only choice, really) after you've built up a relationship and if you're making a significant contribution to the company. Also, I've read the page top-to-bottom and still not fully clear on what's happening here. Highly suggest running this by non-insiders and rephrasing the messaging until it's easier to understand.

RaitoBezarius 10y ago
FYI, Gigster is absolutely not Upwork or Upwork-like, this is amusing misconception that all people have about Gigster. If you're a freelancer asking for equity, you'll give up some of your payment. Gigster is not saying AFAIK: we cut some of your pay in exchange for some equity. Again, AFAIK, Gigster is clearly saying: The more you make customers happy and engaged in your gigs, the more you will earn equity from companies of the Gigster Fund. (I speak as a Gigster which was also using Upwork before, so I'm biased but I believe in Gigster and I am happy to tell people about it.)
- frakkingcylons 10y ago
  Can you elaborate on how Gigster is not like Upwork?
  - RaitoBezarius 10y ago
    Glad you asked it. Upwork is a race to the bottom, the cheapest developer gets the project, at the cost... of the quality and experience. Gigster is more realistic, I don't know how much I can talk about this. We are working with a team of fellow Gigsters, and we work together to estimate fairly the project. We are obviously against the race to the bottom, and we desire cool or interesting projects. Fairly means: Developer is happy with the quote, the timeline / timeframe and the scope. Product Manager is ready to help his team to achieve this project with a happy customer and a happy team. Of course, we do have problems sometimes. But Gigster happiness, that means: Product Managers, Developers and Designers is crucial and I feel it personally. Finally, I will say it bluntly: I am a developer, and I am not paid 40 $ / hour to produce a stupid idea which will change the world. If you want more information, I think that a Gigster employee can explain more about his experience. (sorry for the unstructured explanation!)

keithnz 10y ago

Not quite sure about their terms and conditions. Seems very pervasive

PeterProlific 10y ago

This sounds great but it seems that they do more corporate work. Can't see freelancers retiring on a miniscule % of a muslim dating app. You'd think with all the quality devs being purported that there'd have to be something of quality in there although the portfolio so far is YAWN!

rabble 10y ago

Does gigster have anything real at all? There are no gigs at all listed on their site... just a few full time jobs in SF, plus things for working on gigster itself. Seems like it might be a lean startup trick of painting the sky blue to try and build both sides of a marketplace.

quackware 10y ago
There are hundreds of gigsters and hundreds of gigs / completed projects. I can speak from experience that yes, it is all very real.

koolba 10y ago

From the article, emphasis mine: > This allows our freelancers to receive tangible rewards for their hard work building incredible software, and helps them prepare for the future. Wouldn't simplify paying a freelancer be a tangible reward? And if you're not paying them then they're not really freelancers, they're either interns or suckers (or both). > Will every Gigster Fund company yield a successful return? No. Although some startup companies yield extraordinary financial returns, many fail. Ha! Great way to spin "The majority of this will be worthless ... but you buy Powerball tickets too right?"

quackware 10y ago
This isn't an all or nothing kind of deal. It's an extra incentive for gigster freelancers to do amazing work (besides the great project estimates / rates they have).
- koolba 10y ago
  > This isn't an all or nothing kind of deal. It's an extra incentive for gigster freelancers to do amazing work (besides the great project estimates / rates they have). Maybe not all or nothing but this would end up just like a startup offering equity as compensation. They'd argue that they can pay you less (vs. straight cash for services) because you've got this equity piece as well.
  - quackware 10y ago
    Agreed. As a freelancer that works with Gigster I don't see this as a major source of revenue in my future (most likely a way to generate good PR as another poster mentioned). If they ever use this as leverage to pay less per project then I'm sure a lot of the best developers on the platform will move elsewhere.
rco8786 10y ago
This is in addition to normal pay, you understand that right? Your comments about equity can be applied to anyone working for any startup, so what's your point? I did some work for gigster a few months ago just to try it out. It was a breath of fresh air compared to upwork/elance/etc. Average pay for engineers was around $100/hr.

bazqux2 10y ago

Giving people a very small stake in their work adds much greater inventive than cost. That alone is a good idea (See Starbucks). Emotions trump math - even for programmers. I expect the confusing terms are intenional to make the math harder. But... this is the same company that was giving out work quotes in less than 10 minutes. I expect gigsters existence is subsidized by VC investment and it will be unable to succeed long term. I'm not expecting good things for anyone involved.