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Reading some of the comments here makes it clear that we (the global we) have way overvalued the piece of paper that we get upon graduation and have largely ign

by TDL 10y ago

Reading some of the comments here makes it clear that we (the global we) have way overvalued the piece of paper that we get upon graduation and have largely ignored the process, habits, & knowledge that said piece of paper once stood for. The problem with all these developing nations & cheating isn't one of moral failing, but the fact that a cred is valued more than what the cred is supposed to stand for. I would argue that this has to do more with the venality of Western universities (and our superior marketing) that it has to do with much else. We (Westerners) tell the world, and ourselves, all you need is a piece of paper and all will be well. This piece of propaganda plays a larger role than any perceived moral inferiorities among the developing peoples of the world.

studentrob 10y ago
> we (the global we) have way overvalued the piece of paper that we get upon graduation Well, that's subjective. It's meaningful to some people and not to others Schools aren't meant to be perfect. Reputation is meant to help people identify trustworthy parties more quickly. That doesn't mean you can't re-scrutinize a school or person yourself. It's simply one optional filter. Some people find this more useful than others. If you don't want to pay attention to certificates, that's your choice. People who attended these institutions may care and it's their right to defend their degree from dilution if they wish.
- TDL 10y ago
  I said we have overvalued the certifications/diplomas, not that they don't have value. I also never implied that schools were meant to be perfect. My point is that we have zeroed in on the certification/diploma too much and have begun (until recently) paying too much attention to whether the cert has been attained as opposed to what it is supposed to represent. The reason why I believe this happened is because it is much easier to quantify a diploma or any other certification, "Oh you graduated! That must mean X." It is harder to ascertain whether or not a person who gained a diploma or cert actually deserves it or learned anything in the process.
  - studentrob 10y ago
    > I also never implied that schools were meant to be perfect. Yeah, you're right, sorry. > we have zeroed in on the certification/diploma too much and have begun (until recently) paying too much attention to whether the cert has been attained as opposed to what it is supposed to represent I can only speak for myself. For me this story is not just about the value of the piece of paper. It's the down-the-road effects that I find interesting. You may feel the plight of China or Chinese students does not affect you. I consider them part of my community. I live in Taiwan, which, while a separate country from China, often gets lumped together with China. I think many people could make a case for how this issue affects them, whether in school or the workplace, beyond just the value of their degree. When this happens at all schools, it becomes the value of our educational system. > The reason why I believe this happened is because it is much easier to quantify a diploma or any other certification, "Oh you graduated! That must mean X." Yup, that happens, for sure

by TDL 10y ago

studentrob 10y ago

> we (the global we) have way overvalued the piece of paper that we get upon graduation Well, that's subjective. It's meaningful to some people and not to others Schools aren't meant to be perfect. Reputation is meant to help people identify trustworthy parties more quickly. That doesn't mean you can't re-scrutinize a school or person yourself. It's simply one optional filter. Some people find this more useful than others. If you don't want to pay attention to certificates, that's your choice. People who attended these institutions may care and it's their right to defend their degree from dilution if they wish.

TDL 10y ago
I said we have overvalued the certifications/diplomas, not that they don't have value. I also never implied that schools were meant to be perfect. My point is that we have zeroed in on the certification/diploma too much and have begun (until recently) paying too much attention to whether the cert has been attained as opposed to what it is supposed to represent. The reason why I believe this happened is because it is much easier to quantify a diploma or any other certification, "Oh you graduated! That must mean X." It is harder to ascertain whether or not a person who gained a diploma or cert actually deserves it or learned anything in the process.
- studentrob 10y ago
  > I also never implied that schools were meant to be perfect. Yeah, you're right, sorry. > we have zeroed in on the certification/diploma too much and have begun (until recently) paying too much attention to whether the cert has been attained as opposed to what it is supposed to represent I can only speak for myself. For me this story is not just about the value of the piece of paper. It's the down-the-road effects that I find interesting. You may feel the plight of China or Chinese students does not affect you. I consider them part of my community. I live in Taiwan, which, while a separate country from China, often gets lumped together with China. I think many people could make a case for how this issue affects them, whether in school or the workplace, beyond just the value of their degree. When this happens at all schools, it becomes the value of our educational system. > The reason why I believe this happened is because it is much easier to quantify a diploma or any other certification, "Oh you graduated! That must mean X." Yup, that happens, for sure