4 ms·

The Mall Lives

22 points by samclemens 10y ago

mohn 10y ago
I just returned to the USA after two weeks in Singapore, and I found this article quite poignant. In the downtown area near Suntec/Raffles city, it feels like everything at ground level is a mall (aside from a few historical buildings). Below ground level, there are extensive malls connecting large buildings in the area. As a pedestrian, it's nice to get out of the sun and skip the long waits at the crosswalks, but I did not relish all the time spent in a mall atmosphere. I stayed in a different neighborhood for the second half of the trip and it was nice to get away from the glitzy, high-end malls of downtown. I ended up encountering even more malls though! They were smaller, older, and more run-down but they were numerous and packed in tight. Many of the construction sites I saw there were for new malls. The malls do provide a refreshing air-conditioned space when it's unbearable outside, but it was hard for me to get excited about them other than that. If you will be traveling to Singapore soon and you don't enjoy Western malls, good luck in your planning.
- ChillyWater 10y ago
  Exactly what I saw during my stays in Singapore for the last six months or so. How can there be so much retail? The only thing I could figure is that maybe there is nothing else to do ... You can't work around the house on the weekend (because you can't afford a house). You don't go RV-ing for the weekend (because the are no RVs or places to take them). You don't go to the lake cabin (because you can't afford one). I don't know, I must be missing something.
peterkshultz 10y ago
Compare this to coverage from the Times about the decline of malls in America: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/business/the-economics-and-nostalgia-of-dead-malls.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/business/the-economics-and...
sgnelson 10y ago
I found this article to be way too long and rambling. I could be wrong, but I think the author also suffers a bit from focusing on too small and unique samples. You can use New York, LA, San Fran, (even a suburb of Tel Aviv) etc, as examples, but these are not representative samples of your average American community (be it any community large enough to (at least previously) support a mall). Even in areas where there is no true urban center, or the urban center remains essentially deserted, Malls are still dying at a phenomenal rate. The Internet and technology, has largely killed the mall. Teenagers, for example, no longer need to go to the mall to exchange gossip and be "seen." They also have high amount of disposable income. (see: millennials and car usage for similar changes in a market) And Shopping online has become too easy for many people. The malls that have been able to survive is due to the fact that they are more about entertainment (including shopping as a form of entertainment, such as "build-a-bear" and the like) rather than any other reason. This is one of the reasons that the city centers that have been re-developed have been successful. They're not urban shopping centers, they're urban entertainment centers that happen to have shopping. There are other reasons that malls have been struggling as well (Suburban sprawl is a big one, especially due to factors such as in part, the Concentric Zone Model [0] (as housing stock gets older, and population increase, many persons move further out to newer/better/larger housing stock, and the previously housing is then taken up by a lower socio-economic class, which may no longer be able to support the local mall. So far, this has been repeating for the past 50ish years.) The Mall may live, but they're on life support. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentric_zone_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentric_zone_model note: There are problems with concentric zone model, but it's a model, it can still be good for explanations, especially in this case.
- maxsilver 10y ago
  > Even in areas where there is no true urban center, or the urban center remains essentially deserted, Malls are still dying at a phenomenal rate. The Internet and technology, has largely killed the mall. The Mall may live, but they're on life support. Is this true? Current data largely supports the opposite argument. There's no trend of malls (in general) going away, but of old/overbuilt/poorly-located malls dying (or their market dying) while new malls (or new types of malls) are being built. Most major markets are experiencing retail growth (net positive total retail sqft market-wide), despite many bad malls dying off. > They're not urban shopping centers, they're urban entertainment centers that happen to have shopping. Malls have always had a significant amount of entertainment. Nearly every major mall has had (and still has) a movie theatre and multiple restaurants. Some of folks may even remember a time when almost every mall had an arcade in it. http://www.costar.com/News/Article/As-Retail-Finally-Enters-Recovery-More-Investors-Backing-Malls-High-End-Shopping-Centers/177006 http://www.costar.com/News/Article/As-Retail-Finally-Enters-... http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2014/may/08/costar-strip-malls-retail-recovery/ http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2014/may/08/costar-... The "dead mall" story is a lot like pointing at Detroit or Flint or Baltimore and saying, "look at all those boarded up homes. Housing is dead! People hate having a place to live.". That may certainly be true in those specific areas, but most markets are actually experiencing modest-to-insane amounts of growth.
CM30 10y ago
This sort of article makes me wonder whether the 'decline of malls' is more to do with the culture and geography of the US than anything specifically related to shopping malls themselves. Because they're also (at least from what I can tell) doing pretty well in Europe as well, with the popular ones in the UK seemingly just going from strength to strength and quite a few new ones opening up thanks to the Westfields brand. Indeed, in parts of London (and quite a few towns in outer London), the shopping centre basically is the high street.

22 points by samclemens 10y ago

mohn 10y ago

I just returned to the USA after two weeks in Singapore, and I found this article quite poignant. In the downtown area near Suntec/Raffles city, it feels like everything at ground level is a mall (aside from a few historical buildings). Below ground level, there are extensive malls connecting large buildings in the area. As a pedestrian, it's nice to get out of the sun and skip the long waits at the crosswalks, but I did not relish all the time spent in a mall atmosphere. I stayed in a different neighborhood for the second half of the trip and it was nice to get away from the glitzy, high-end malls of downtown. I ended up encountering even more malls though! They were smaller, older, and more run-down but they were numerous and packed in tight. Many of the construction sites I saw there were for new malls. The malls do provide a refreshing air-conditioned space when it's unbearable outside, but it was hard for me to get excited about them other than that. If you will be traveling to Singapore soon and you don't enjoy Western malls, good luck in your planning.

ChillyWater 10y ago
Exactly what I saw during my stays in Singapore for the last six months or so. How can there be so much retail? The only thing I could figure is that maybe there is nothing else to do ... You can't work around the house on the weekend (because you can't afford a house). You don't go RV-ing for the weekend (because the are no RVs or places to take them). You don't go to the lake cabin (because you can't afford one). I don't know, I must be missing something.

peterkshultz 10y ago

Compare this to coverage from the Times about the decline of malls in America: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/business/the-economics-and-nostalgia-of-dead-malls.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/business/the-economics-and...

sgnelson 10y ago

I found this article to be way too long and rambling. I could be wrong, but I think the author also suffers a bit from focusing on too small and unique samples. You can use New York, LA, San Fran, (even a suburb of Tel Aviv) etc, as examples, but these are not representative samples of your average American community (be it any community large enough to (at least previously) support a mall). Even in areas where there is no true urban center, or the urban center remains essentially deserted, Malls are still dying at a phenomenal rate. The Internet and technology, has largely killed the mall. Teenagers, for example, no longer need to go to the mall to exchange gossip and be "seen." They also have high amount of disposable income. (see: millennials and car usage for similar changes in a market) And Shopping online has become too easy for many people. The malls that have been able to survive is due to the fact that they are more about entertainment (including shopping as a form of entertainment, such as "build-a-bear" and the like) rather than any other reason. This is one of the reasons that the city centers that have been re-developed have been successful. They're not urban shopping centers, they're urban entertainment centers that happen to have shopping. There are other reasons that malls have been struggling as well (Suburban sprawl is a big one, especially due to factors such as in part, the Concentric Zone Model [0] (as housing stock gets older, and population increase, many persons move further out to newer/better/larger housing stock, and the previously housing is then taken up by a lower socio-economic class, which may no longer be able to support the local mall. So far, this has been repeating for the past 50ish years.) The Mall may live, but they're on life support. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentric_zone_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentric_zone_model note: There are problems with concentric zone model, but it's a model, it can still be good for explanations, especially in this case.

maxsilver 10y ago
> Even in areas where there is no true urban center, or the urban center remains essentially deserted, Malls are still dying at a phenomenal rate. The Internet and technology, has largely killed the mall. The Mall may live, but they're on life support. Is this true? Current data largely supports the opposite argument. There's no trend of malls (in general) going away, but of old/overbuilt/poorly-located malls dying (or their market dying) while new malls (or new types of malls) are being built. Most major markets are experiencing retail growth (net positive total retail sqft market-wide), despite many bad malls dying off. > They're not urban shopping centers, they're urban entertainment centers that happen to have shopping. Malls have always had a significant amount of entertainment. Nearly every major mall has had (and still has) a movie theatre and multiple restaurants. Some of folks may even remember a time when almost every mall had an arcade in it. http://www.costar.com/News/Article/As-Retail-Finally-Enters-Recovery-More-Investors-Backing-Malls-High-End-Shopping-Centers/177006 http://www.costar.com/News/Article/As-Retail-Finally-Enters-... http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2014/may/08/costar-strip-malls-retail-recovery/ http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2014/may/08/costar-... The "dead mall" story is a lot like pointing at Detroit or Flint or Baltimore and saying, "look at all those boarded up homes. Housing is dead! People hate having a place to live.". That may certainly be true in those specific areas, but most markets are actually experiencing modest-to-insane amounts of growth.

CM30 10y ago

This sort of article makes me wonder whether the 'decline of malls' is more to do with the culture and geography of the US than anything specifically related to shopping malls themselves. Because they're also (at least from what I can tell) doing pretty well in Europe as well, with the popular ones in the UK seemingly just going from strength to strength and quite a few new ones opening up thanks to the Westfields brand. Indeed, in parts of London (and quite a few towns in outer London), the shopping centre basically is the high street.