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The cost of living is definitely infinitely higher than living in the midwest but you certainly can find fields and forests (and actual mountains!) in the SF ar

The cost of living is definitely infinitely higher than living in the midwest but you certainly can find fields and forests (and actual mountains!) in the SF area. For example, the minute you cross the Golden Gate bridge, you are in Marin County, a county with a rich agricultural history, amazing natural places like Muir Woods (the setting for the ape's home in the latest Planet of the Apes), and 85.5% of it's land protected from development forever. Here's a photo from the Headlands (http://www.robertcampbellphotography.com/Images/Marin/Marin-Headlands-134.jpg http://www.robertcampbellphotography.com/Images/Marin/Marin-...), you can see SF just in the background, it's about 10 miles away from Downtown to the place in the photo. If you live in Marin, you can also choose to take the Ferry which drops you off in Downtown SF as well. If you go South-West of SF, you will hit Pacifica and Half Moon Bay which are quaint coastal towns that will make you forget that you're only 20 miles away from San Francisco. Go East, past the hills of Berkeley and you hit more rural spread out developments near Orinda, Diablo, etc. I'm glad you found balance with the things that are important to you which is what really matters. Me personally, I'm drawn to the coast and the great expanse of the Pacific Ocean. The SF area has it's fair share of urban problems, but then you also have amazing restaurants, a close-to-world-class arts scene, some of the best schools and hospitals in the country, the most impactful technology companies in the world, and the fair share of folks who have come West looking to make their mark on the world in Gold Rush 2.0. P.S. I've spent a fair share of time in Detroit/Michigan and the area and as much as I love being able to buy a city block there, I can't live in a place that calls soy sauce on rice "Fried Rice".

davidw 10y ago
Sadly, Marin County is "the boss-level kingdom of California NIMBYs": https://twitter.com/kimmaicutler/status/735561614368202752 https://twitter.com/kimmaicutler/status/735561614368202752
- calbear81 10y ago
  I support development but I'm kind of okay with not too much in Marin because there's no viable and fast public transit from there to SF so adding a bunch of people there doesn't make as much sense (I could also be rationalizing a bias towards keeping Marin green and "country" since I want to eventually settle down there..) I really support development along established rail corridors along CalTrain and BART lines. There should be ridiculously tall housing towers in cheap places like Hayward and open places like Walnut Creek and Pleasanton, if only the BART was not so damn slow and so freakishly expensive.
  - davidw 10y ago
    I agree completely with keeping parks and other green space, but disagree with so little density in the actual built up areas.
  - mikeyouse 10y ago
    Of course theres no BART in Marin due to racist local NIMBYs so there's a bit of a paradox involved.
    - aliston 10y ago
      This is not historically accurate. Marin voted in favor of BART, but after San Mateo country bailed, the costs were shifted North. It was the increased costs that prevented BART from going across the Golden Gate.
      - ccarter84 10y ago
        Didn't know that, thanks for filling in that gap....I had always thought it was just Marin elitism
  - paloaltokid 10y ago
    Development along the existing CalTrain and BART lines makes a lot of sense. Though it would be great if there were good public transit options in Marin, the reality is that neither CalTrain nor BART will ever go there. The development is just too expensive at this point. Prediction: the gentrification currently happening in Oakland will soon spread to Richmond and Vallejo. Vallejo, it's crime problems aside, actually makes a lot of sense. There's a ferry there and cheap housing.
    - hollerith 10y ago
      I find it a little misleading to point out that there is no CalTrain to Marin while omitting to note that there is regularly-scheduled ferry service to Marin. The ferries are just as fast and definitely more pleasant than CalTrain. (BART though is faster, I'm pretty sure.)
- rsync 10y ago
  "Sadly, Marin County is "the boss-level kingdom of California NIMBYs" Cross the bridge, take a left, and drive out to the national seashore. Have lunch in Pt. Reyes. Drive back out to the 101 through the Nicasio horse country. Thank you, thank you, Marin County NIMBYs. Thank you.
  - davidw 10y ago
    I don't think most housing advocates want to pave over parks and things like that, but want to add some options where there is already a town. Also, as kind of an aside, Marin NIMBY's pretty much killed mountain biking in its birthplace, which I also find sad.
    - CalRobert 10y ago
      Ironically the NIMBY's actions do result in massive loss of wild land, but in someone else's backyard.
danjayh 10y ago
If you're ever back in Michigan, you should visit the west side ... and also check out lake Michigan. Grand Rapids isn't as big as Detroit, but our economy is growing at a healthy clip and there's a lot of interesting things going on here.
- calbear81 10y ago
  Actually, I was at ArtPrize this past year. The western coast is beautiful, I got a chance to go to Sleeping Bear and up into the U.P. as well. I'm definitely going to head back there to do some biking.
neilsharma 10y ago
^ this is true. I was born and raised in south bay area and went to school in Berkeley. The Bay Area is an ecological treasure trove. But over the years I've seen the hills dotted with houses, untouched swamp land (great for the local wildlife) turned into generic commercial offices, and roads developed deeper into the outskirts. Noise and air pollution is getting worse. Parking and congestion is a nightmare anywhere there are new offices or apartments in old neighborhoods (SF/PA/MV). Public transportation takes hours to get you anywhere (though I'm optimistic about Bart expansions). I haven't heard anyone in favor of housing development talk about these problems, problems that are bound to get worse if more units are built unless equally aggressive solutions are implemented. Like others here have said, the Bay Area pressures career-oriented individuals to move here. Although I love the diversity of backgrounds, it is clear that the vast majority of my friends who moved here haven't developed the affinity or interest in non-career-related aspects of the culture/geography. They are not emotionally invested in everything else the bay area has to offer (I theorize that this is because their families and their childhood memories are elsewhere). I'm not saying new housing shouldn't be built (affording housing for lower-income families/individuals need to be built ASAP). I can't afford rent here either and commit social suicide by choosing to live with my parents despite being in my mid 20s (fortunate enough to have this option). But I can't in good conscience support development in the Bay Area until it comes bundled with discussions on environmental protection, transportation expansion, tax changes (who is going to pay for the extra firefighters/police offers needed if population increases), infrastructure projects (pumping water into the bay, electricity, etc). As of right now, it is so singly-focused on lowering rent that these other issues don't seem to matter in comparison. I appreciate sama's attempt to get us to call our representatives. As an active voter and lifelong bay area resident, I will do so too.
- khuey 10y ago
  The point of building infill development in our cities is to not pave over greenfield land on the urban fringe.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  The people who have generally opposed dense new housing in the bay seem not to realize that their actions destroy open space and wildlife. It's not like people who can't afford to live in Mountain View are going to kill themselves. They'll just live farther, and farther, and farther out, in hideously damaging single family homes with lawns that gulp water and houses that guzzle electricity to stay cool.
187235235 10y ago
> amazing restaurants I prefer having friends over and cooking. Restaurants are too impersonal. It is often hard to hear, and they can't be that intimate in nature as you are out in public. There is nothing like eating the meal of a friend or cooking for a friend.
WildUtah 10y ago
Muir Woods (the setting for the ape's home in the latest Planet of the Apes) A Planet of The Apes remake? That's the first anchor you reach for? Muir Woods is the planet Endor!
- jedberg 10y ago
  > Muir Woods is the planet Endor! True, but in the Planet of the Apes, it's actually supposed to be Muir Woods, so they don't dress it up to look different.
unprepare 10y ago
>P.S. I've spent a fair share of time in Detroit/Michigan and the area and as much as I love being able to buy a city block there, I can't live in a place that calls soy sauce on rice "Fried Rice". While Detroit doesnt have a huge asian population, and thus doesnt have great asian food - it does have huge middle eastern and mexican populations. You can get some of the best mexican, greek, and middle eastern food you'll ever have right in Detroit, as well as Detroit specialty foods like Coney Dogs, Detroit style pizza, and Hani. Detroit is well regarded for its food, so its surprising for me to see someone disliking that part of the city.

davidw 10y ago

Sadly, Marin County is "the boss-level kingdom of California NIMBYs": https://twitter.com/kimmaicutler/status/735561614368202752 https://twitter.com/kimmaicutler/status/735561614368202752

calbear81 10y ago
I support development but I'm kind of okay with not too much in Marin because there's no viable and fast public transit from there to SF so adding a bunch of people there doesn't make as much sense (I could also be rationalizing a bias towards keeping Marin green and "country" since I want to eventually settle down there..) I really support development along established rail corridors along CalTrain and BART lines. There should be ridiculously tall housing towers in cheap places like Hayward and open places like Walnut Creek and Pleasanton, if only the BART was not so damn slow and so freakishly expensive.
- davidw 10y ago
  I agree completely with keeping parks and other green space, but disagree with so little density in the actual built up areas.
- mikeyouse 10y ago
  Of course theres no BART in Marin due to racist local NIMBYs so there's a bit of a paradox involved.
  - aliston 10y ago
    This is not historically accurate. Marin voted in favor of BART, but after San Mateo country bailed, the costs were shifted North. It was the increased costs that prevented BART from going across the Golden Gate.
    - ccarter84 10y ago
      Didn't know that, thanks for filling in that gap....I had always thought it was just Marin elitism
- paloaltokid 10y ago
  Development along the existing CalTrain and BART lines makes a lot of sense. Though it would be great if there were good public transit options in Marin, the reality is that neither CalTrain nor BART will ever go there. The development is just too expensive at this point. Prediction: the gentrification currently happening in Oakland will soon spread to Richmond and Vallejo. Vallejo, it's crime problems aside, actually makes a lot of sense. There's a ferry there and cheap housing.
  - hollerith 10y ago
    I find it a little misleading to point out that there is no CalTrain to Marin while omitting to note that there is regularly-scheduled ferry service to Marin. The ferries are just as fast and definitely more pleasant than CalTrain. (BART though is faster, I'm pretty sure.)
rsync 10y ago
"Sadly, Marin County is "the boss-level kingdom of California NIMBYs" Cross the bridge, take a left, and drive out to the national seashore. Have lunch in Pt. Reyes. Drive back out to the 101 through the Nicasio horse country. Thank you, thank you, Marin County NIMBYs. Thank you.
- davidw 10y ago
  I don't think most housing advocates want to pave over parks and things like that, but want to add some options where there is already a town. Also, as kind of an aside, Marin NIMBY's pretty much killed mountain biking in its birthplace, which I also find sad.
  - CalRobert 10y ago
    Ironically the NIMBY's actions do result in massive loss of wild land, but in someone else's backyard.

danjayh 10y ago

If you're ever back in Michigan, you should visit the west side ... and also check out lake Michigan. Grand Rapids isn't as big as Detroit, but our economy is growing at a healthy clip and there's a lot of interesting things going on here.

calbear81 10y ago
Actually, I was at ArtPrize this past year. The western coast is beautiful, I got a chance to go to Sleeping Bear and up into the U.P. as well. I'm definitely going to head back there to do some biking.

neilsharma 10y ago

^ this is true. I was born and raised in south bay area and went to school in Berkeley. The Bay Area is an ecological treasure trove. But over the years I've seen the hills dotted with houses, untouched swamp land (great for the local wildlife) turned into generic commercial offices, and roads developed deeper into the outskirts. Noise and air pollution is getting worse. Parking and congestion is a nightmare anywhere there are new offices or apartments in old neighborhoods (SF/PA/MV). Public transportation takes hours to get you anywhere (though I'm optimistic about Bart expansions). I haven't heard anyone in favor of housing development talk about these problems, problems that are bound to get worse if more units are built unless equally aggressive solutions are implemented. Like others here have said, the Bay Area pressures career-oriented individuals to move here. Although I love the diversity of backgrounds, it is clear that the vast majority of my friends who moved here haven't developed the affinity or interest in non-career-related aspects of the culture/geography. They are not emotionally invested in everything else the bay area has to offer (I theorize that this is because their families and their childhood memories are elsewhere). I'm not saying new housing shouldn't be built (affording housing for lower-income families/individuals need to be built ASAP). I can't afford rent here either and commit social suicide by choosing to live with my parents despite being in my mid 20s (fortunate enough to have this option). But I can't in good conscience support development in the Bay Area until it comes bundled with discussions on environmental protection, transportation expansion, tax changes (who is going to pay for the extra firefighters/police offers needed if population increases), infrastructure projects (pumping water into the bay, electricity, etc). As of right now, it is so singly-focused on lowering rent that these other issues don't seem to matter in comparison. I appreciate sama's attempt to get us to call our representatives. As an active voter and lifelong bay area resident, I will do so too.

khuey 10y ago
The point of building infill development in our cities is to not pave over greenfield land on the urban fringe.
CalRobert 10y ago
The people who have generally opposed dense new housing in the bay seem not to realize that their actions destroy open space and wildlife. It's not like people who can't afford to live in Mountain View are going to kill themselves. They'll just live farther, and farther, and farther out, in hideously damaging single family homes with lawns that gulp water and houses that guzzle electricity to stay cool.

187235235 10y ago

> amazing restaurants I prefer having friends over and cooking. Restaurants are too impersonal. It is often hard to hear, and they can't be that intimate in nature as you are out in public. There is nothing like eating the meal of a friend or cooking for a friend.

WildUtah 10y ago

Muir Woods (the setting for the ape's home in the latest Planet of the Apes) A Planet of The Apes remake? That's the first anchor you reach for? Muir Woods is the planet Endor!

jedberg 10y ago
> Muir Woods is the planet Endor! True, but in the Planet of the Apes, it's actually supposed to be Muir Woods, so they don't dress it up to look different.

unprepare 10y ago

>P.S. I've spent a fair share of time in Detroit/Michigan and the area and as much as I love being able to buy a city block there, I can't live in a place that calls soy sauce on rice "Fried Rice". While Detroit doesnt have a huge asian population, and thus doesnt have great asian food - it does have huge middle eastern and mexican populations. You can get some of the best mexican, greek, and middle eastern food you'll ever have right in Detroit, as well as Detroit specialty foods like Coney Dogs, Detroit style pizza, and Hani. Detroit is well regarded for its food, so its surprising for me to see someone disliking that part of the city.