7 ms·

One common mistake made by westerners is treating lack in language proficiency as low competency in work or study. Native English speakers take for granted the

One common mistake made by westerners is treating lack in language proficiency as low competency in work or study. Native English speakers take for granted the ability to speak English fluently but do not realize it takes years to master spoken English as a non-native speaker. Although this is tangential to the issue being discussed here, but you can see this mistake appearing in lots of comments here.

sheepmullet 10y ago
Because it is a good indicator when studying in an English speaking country. If you can't understand the lecturer, the tutor, the homework, the assignments, the exams, the study material, other students etc, then you are incredibly unlikely to be learning a whole lot.
- paradite 10y ago
  You raised a valid point. I agree that the level of English proficiency would have an impact on the effectiveness of learning. However my main point is that the poor command of language should not be confused with poor knowledge on the subject domain. For example, a PhD student who just arrived at US may not be able to communicate well enough in English to articulate his/her thoughts, but that by no means is an indicator that the person has poor knowledge on his main research topic.
  - studentrob 10y ago
    > a PhD student who just arrived at US may not be able to communicate well enough in English to articulate his/her thoughts, but that by no means is an indicator that the person has poor knowledge on his main research topic. I don't see any part of the article that makes that assumption. If you don't understand the test, there's no way to verify if you know the subject matter being tested. Cheating is cheating Chinese students certainly have it rough and are being underserved by China, America, and themselves. Americans are trying to help by opening up institutions. Perhaps they should offer more English language programs at the beginning for these students. Students could help themselves more by asking for help with English rather than cheating. The CPC could open up its media more so that more Chinese people can learn English by watching American TV shows, for example. Many of the best English speakers I've met in my travels through Asia grew up watching American TV. Others learned from churches. Unfortunately, China cracks down heavily on both organized religion and media.
    - gerbilly 10y ago
      There are a billion Chinese, so I wouldn't blame them for not learning English while living in China. It's just not worth the effort. Also the fact that Chinese is almost as far as you can get from any western European language makes it really hard to learn English (or for us to learn Chinese for that matter.) I can't imagine the Chinese government encouraging its citizens to lean English for political reasons either.
      - studentrob 10y ago
        > There are a billion Chinese, so I wouldn't blame them for not learning English while living in China. It's just not worth the effort. I don't blame them. For the ones who get accepted to US institutions, it's definitely worth it. > Also the fact that Chinese is almost as far as you can get from any western European language makes it really hard to learn English (or for us to learn Chinese for that matter.) Well I definitely disagree there. I'm studying Chinese. The characters are hard and that's it. Chinese grammar is super simple. There are no tenses or subject verb agreement so verb conjugation is not a concern. After you learn the basic grammar, Chinese is just about memorizing lots of vocab. > I can't imagine the Chinese government encouraging its citizens to lean English for political reasons either. They can do what they want but I believe most countries these days appreciate that globalization is inevitable and that learning other languages helps assuage the burden of embracing that. China doesn't want to go back to its cultural revolution experiment and the world needs China. China has some really interesting geography that most westerners will never see. That could change in the future with more people from each culture learning other languages. Chinese are already touring the world. When will China itself begin to become easier for the world to tour it?
studentrob 10y ago
You make a good point that one solution to this problem is getting the incoming Chinese students a better English education. They obviously don't really have it before arriving, and schools want their tuition. Schools should enroll Chinese students in English education for 3-6 months prior to the beginning of the term.
- paradite 10y ago
  I absolutely agree with you on this.
  - studentrob 10y ago
    Cool. A big thing about learning language is getting the confidence to speak. You can get that by practicing with some native speakers. In the classroom, if students don't feel comfortable speaking, they won't ask questions. If they don't ask questions, they won't learn as well as they could by asking.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

sheepmullet 10y ago

Because it is a good indicator when studying in an English speaking country. If you can't understand the lecturer, the tutor, the homework, the assignments, the exams, the study material, other students etc, then you are incredibly unlikely to be learning a whole lot.

paradite 10y ago
You raised a valid point. I agree that the level of English proficiency would have an impact on the effectiveness of learning. However my main point is that the poor command of language should not be confused with poor knowledge on the subject domain. For example, a PhD student who just arrived at US may not be able to communicate well enough in English to articulate his/her thoughts, but that by no means is an indicator that the person has poor knowledge on his main research topic.
- studentrob 10y ago
  > a PhD student who just arrived at US may not be able to communicate well enough in English to articulate his/her thoughts, but that by no means is an indicator that the person has poor knowledge on his main research topic. I don't see any part of the article that makes that assumption. If you don't understand the test, there's no way to verify if you know the subject matter being tested. Cheating is cheating Chinese students certainly have it rough and are being underserved by China, America, and themselves. Americans are trying to help by opening up institutions. Perhaps they should offer more English language programs at the beginning for these students. Students could help themselves more by asking for help with English rather than cheating. The CPC could open up its media more so that more Chinese people can learn English by watching American TV shows, for example. Many of the best English speakers I've met in my travels through Asia grew up watching American TV. Others learned from churches. Unfortunately, China cracks down heavily on both organized religion and media.
  - gerbilly 10y ago
    There are a billion Chinese, so I wouldn't blame them for not learning English while living in China. It's just not worth the effort. Also the fact that Chinese is almost as far as you can get from any western European language makes it really hard to learn English (or for us to learn Chinese for that matter.) I can't imagine the Chinese government encouraging its citizens to lean English for political reasons either.
    - studentrob 10y ago
      > There are a billion Chinese, so I wouldn't blame them for not learning English while living in China. It's just not worth the effort. I don't blame them. For the ones who get accepted to US institutions, it's definitely worth it. > Also the fact that Chinese is almost as far as you can get from any western European language makes it really hard to learn English (or for us to learn Chinese for that matter.) Well I definitely disagree there. I'm studying Chinese. The characters are hard and that's it. Chinese grammar is super simple. There are no tenses or subject verb agreement so verb conjugation is not a concern. After you learn the basic grammar, Chinese is just about memorizing lots of vocab. > I can't imagine the Chinese government encouraging its citizens to lean English for political reasons either. They can do what they want but I believe most countries these days appreciate that globalization is inevitable and that learning other languages helps assuage the burden of embracing that. China doesn't want to go back to its cultural revolution experiment and the world needs China. China has some really interesting geography that most westerners will never see. That could change in the future with more people from each culture learning other languages. Chinese are already touring the world. When will China itself begin to become easier for the world to tour it?

studentrob 10y ago

You make a good point that one solution to this problem is getting the incoming Chinese students a better English education. They obviously don't really have it before arriving, and schools want their tuition. Schools should enroll Chinese students in English education for 3-6 months prior to the beginning of the term.

paradite 10y ago
I absolutely agree with you on this.
- studentrob 10y ago
  Cool. A big thing about learning language is getting the confidence to speak. You can get that by practicing with some native speakers. In the classroom, if students don't feel comfortable speaking, they won't ask questions. If they don't ask questions, they won't learn as well as they could by asking.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]