5 ms·

To be fair, there is a difference between adderall and actual cheating. One of these is a thing that helps you do your own work better, and the other is hiring

by darawk 10y ago

To be fair, there is a difference between adderall and actual cheating. One of these is a thing that helps you do your own work better, and the other is hiring someone else to do your work for you. One of these things is fraudulent, and the other is simply performance enhancement. Taking Adderall to study doesn't make you less competent at the subject in question, whereas cheating your way through tests does.

mrep 10y ago
100% agree with you and that's why I said "Us Americans aren't so innocent", not "we're just as guilty" (Albeit, there are a lot of us who cheat also).
whatshisface 10y ago
>"Taking Adderall to study doesn't make you less competent at the subject in question" What happens when you stop taking it? We frown upon doping in school for the same reason we frown upon it in sports. It creates an environment where people are forced to deal with the side effects to compete, or receive a lower grade. Employers will expect that you continue your performance outside of school. If you stop doping after school, your employer will notice the new correlation between GPA and performance - hurting those with legitimate work ethic and skill. If you don't stop doping, you will start to experience some serious health issues. (Even if employers don't think that GPA matters, so long as any significant number hire based on it the zero-sum fault will persist.)
- vibrato 10y ago
  what correlation between GPA and performance? Has one ever been found? Google has not found one. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-google-hires-people-2013-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-google-hires-people-2013-...
  - tdaltonc 10y ago
    > Even for new grads, the correlation is slight, the company has found. Small_correlation != no_correlation
- ohyes 10y ago
  Doubt the employer would notice it, being that GPA and performance are not necessarily correlated. Doping in any situation gives an edge at the upper levels, but won't make an average person superhuman. (It makes superhumans even more superhuman). We frown on doping because it's dangerous due to bad health effects. Forcing someone to use performance enhancers to compete and damage their health is the ethical problem in my mind. Collateral harm.
- rtpg 10y ago
  Plus, since Adderall and the like are in limited supply, you're preventing people who actually need it to function from getting the access they need.
  - douche 10y ago
    It's absurdly easy to get diagnosed with ADHD/ADD and get an Adderall or equivalent prescription. I don't think the pharmaceutical companies have any qualms about producing more supply, if there is demand for it.
    - marshray 10y ago
      No, production is limited by the US Drug Enforcement Agency: http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/670035.pdf http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/670035.pdf "As part of its work to prevent diversion of controlled substances, DEA sets limits, known as quotas, on the amount of certain classes of controlled substances available for use in the United States"
    - rtpg 10y ago
      There are distribution issues because of drug control regulations. Didn't mean to imply that it's hard to produce
    - eruditely 10y ago
      Excuse me, ADHD is very serious and real. Let me show you a few relevant quotes. Here's the relevant literature linked. "Given these deficits in academic skills and behavior, it is not surprising to find that as many as 56% of children with ADHD may require academic tutoring, approximately 30% may repeat a grade in school, and 30–40% may be placed in one or more special education programs. As many as 46% may be suspended from school and 10–35% may drop out entirely and fail to complete high school (Barkley, DuPaul, & McMurray, 1990; Barkley, Fischer, Edelbrock, & Smallish, 1990; Barkley, Fischer, Smallish, & Fletcher, 2006; Faraone et al., 1993; Szatmari, Offord, & Boyle, 1989; Weiss & Hechtman, 1993)." It causes an order of magnitude more problems in your life. http://l.facebook.com/l.php http://l.facebook.com/l.php? u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedirect.com%2Fscience%2Farticle%2Fpii%2FS0160289615001312&h=ZAQFx8Qkc https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204423904275949&set=p.10204423904275949&type=3 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204423904275949&se... http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drthomasebrown.com%2Fpdfs%2FHighIQAdults.JADonlineversion.pdf&h=VAQHsjduO http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drthomasebrow... http://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/article/Pages/2012/v73n07/v73n0710.aspx http://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/article/Pages/2012/v73n07/v7... ^^ 16 year follow up of life outcomes, know that getting medicated gives you remission the majority of the time. I can post more links if necessary. https://t.co/n1mUvGpOrn https://t.co/n1mUvGpOrn ^^ Medication effects on I.Q && Working memory. WM > I.Q. There is one study that has found an increase of up to 4.5 points for kids that are medicated if they have ADHD. Very serious. Deserves to be taken very seriously. Stop doubting something extremely real and significant. http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medicalnewstoday.com%2Farticles%2F289931.php&h=KAQFlNd4J http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medicalnewsto... ^ 2-4x increases your mortality rate.
Terr_ 10y ago
> Taking Adderall to study doesn't make you less competent at the subject in question 1. Is exam-cram really the same as knowledge? 2. Test performance can often a zero-sum game, when curved. So dopers may have better performance, but they are indirectly harming all the honest kids. 3. Is it desirable to tie better-performance to having money/connections and weak ethics? (Whether similar to full-time work or not.)

by darawk 10y ago

mrep 10y ago

100% agree with you and that's why I said "Us Americans aren't so innocent", not "we're just as guilty" (Albeit, there are a lot of us who cheat also).

whatshisface 10y ago

>"Taking Adderall to study doesn't make you less competent at the subject in question" What happens when you stop taking it? We frown upon doping in school for the same reason we frown upon it in sports. It creates an environment where people are forced to deal with the side effects to compete, or receive a lower grade. Employers will expect that you continue your performance outside of school. If you stop doping after school, your employer will notice the new correlation between GPA and performance - hurting those with legitimate work ethic and skill. If you don't stop doping, you will start to experience some serious health issues. (Even if employers don't think that GPA matters, so long as any significant number hire based on it the zero-sum fault will persist.)

vibrato 10y ago
what correlation between GPA and performance? Has one ever been found? Google has not found one. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-google-hires-people-2013-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-google-hires-people-2013-...
- tdaltonc 10y ago
  > Even for new grads, the correlation is slight, the company has found. Small_correlation != no_correlation
ohyes 10y ago
Doubt the employer would notice it, being that GPA and performance are not necessarily correlated. Doping in any situation gives an edge at the upper levels, but won't make an average person superhuman. (It makes superhumans even more superhuman). We frown on doping because it's dangerous due to bad health effects. Forcing someone to use performance enhancers to compete and damage their health is the ethical problem in my mind. Collateral harm.
rtpg 10y ago
Plus, since Adderall and the like are in limited supply, you're preventing people who actually need it to function from getting the access they need.
- douche 10y ago
  It's absurdly easy to get diagnosed with ADHD/ADD and get an Adderall or equivalent prescription. I don't think the pharmaceutical companies have any qualms about producing more supply, if there is demand for it.
  - marshray 10y ago
    No, production is limited by the US Drug Enforcement Agency: http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/670035.pdf http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/670035.pdf "As part of its work to prevent diversion of controlled substances, DEA sets limits, known as quotas, on the amount of certain classes of controlled substances available for use in the United States"
  - rtpg 10y ago
    There are distribution issues because of drug control regulations. Didn't mean to imply that it's hard to produce
  - eruditely 10y ago
    Excuse me, ADHD is very serious and real. Let me show you a few relevant quotes. Here's the relevant literature linked. "Given these deficits in academic skills and behavior, it is not surprising to find that as many as 56% of children with ADHD may require academic tutoring, approximately 30% may repeat a grade in school, and 30–40% may be placed in one or more special education programs. As many as 46% may be suspended from school and 10–35% may drop out entirely and fail to complete high school (Barkley, DuPaul, & McMurray, 1990; Barkley, Fischer, Edelbrock, & Smallish, 1990; Barkley, Fischer, Smallish, & Fletcher, 2006; Faraone et al., 1993; Szatmari, Offord, & Boyle, 1989; Weiss & Hechtman, 1993)." It causes an order of magnitude more problems in your life. http://l.facebook.com/l.php http://l.facebook.com/l.php? u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedirect.com%2Fscience%2Farticle%2Fpii%2FS0160289615001312&h=ZAQFx8Qkc https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204423904275949&set=p.10204423904275949&type=3 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204423904275949&se... http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drthomasebrown.com%2Fpdfs%2FHighIQAdults.JADonlineversion.pdf&h=VAQHsjduO http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drthomasebrow... http://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/article/Pages/2012/v73n07/v73n0710.aspx http://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/article/Pages/2012/v73n07/v7... ^^ 16 year follow up of life outcomes, know that getting medicated gives you remission the majority of the time. I can post more links if necessary. https://t.co/n1mUvGpOrn https://t.co/n1mUvGpOrn ^^ Medication effects on I.Q && Working memory. WM > I.Q. There is one study that has found an increase of up to 4.5 points for kids that are medicated if they have ADHD. Very serious. Deserves to be taken very seriously. Stop doubting something extremely real and significant. http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medicalnewstoday.com%2Farticles%2F289931.php&h=KAQFlNd4J http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medicalnewsto... ^ 2-4x increases your mortality rate.

Terr_ 10y ago

> Taking Adderall to study doesn't make you less competent at the subject in question 1. Is exam-cram really the same as knowledge? 2. Test performance can often a zero-sum game, when curved. So dopers may have better performance, but they are indirectly harming all the honest kids. 3. Is it desirable to tie better-performance to having money/connections and weak ethics? (Whether similar to full-time work or not.)