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I'm always confused at how people pity those that work in menial, repetitive, uncreative manufacturing jobs (to give an example, see the flack that Amazon recei

I'm always confused at how people pity those that work in menial, repetitive, uncreative manufacturing jobs (to give an example, see the flack that Amazon receives for the drudgery of its warehouse jobs) and at the same time worry about job loss from automation. These uncreative, "inhumane" jobs we have are precisely the low hanging fruit ripe for the picking by robots. Of course, there is always friction in the redistribution process of the labor, but in the long run, I can't help but be optimistic about the increased human potential that can result from moving people away from menial tasks. Unless of course, you believe that some people are better off with tasks that require low creativity and human initiative.

Spooky23 10y ago
Some people lack creativity and initiative. They need to eat too.
SandersAK 10y ago
I can't project what your life situation is like, but it would be very very hard to find someone who could make a statement like this who has ever done or known someone who depended on a job like this to survive.
- altonzheng 10y ago
  Fair enough. I'm in a very good situation now, so I am speaking from a privileged position. However, I have worked as a cashier at a grocery store in the past (admittedly I didn't depend on it to survive.) I empathize with those hard workers who take pride in their job, but I feel like keeping jobs around for the sake of giving people livelihoods is a signal of something very flawed in how our economy, or even society, operates. I dream of a world where we collectively choose to work less, because robotics and AI has picked up the lion's share of labor.
  - SandersAK 10y ago
    Yeah, I'm definitely not in disagreement. I just think often in tech we are so excited for a future that we see is potentially very close that we overlook some of the ramifications of those actions. It's not that I don't want a world where automation makes shit-work go away, it's that I want that future to be empathetic to, and understand that it needs to incorporate a solution for those who don't have the power to change their situation. Otherwise, what's the point?
wiz21 10y ago
My father was a "manager" of people doing that kind of ultra repetitive, not very smart, dirty-hands tasks. I was fortunate enough to meet some of them when I was 20 years old. This opened my eyes : - those people were not well educated so that kind of work was something they could do and for a decent salary - that was a job and they had pride in being employed and useful - that job was not mentally exhausting so they could think about something else or talk while working; many found that quite enjoyable, socially interesting if you will - they were doing different things, going from one "simple" task to another and so they all shared a knowledge ofthe build process they were involved in. They were proud of that as well. So well, those "not very interesting" tasks were actually taken care of very seriously and with pride. So in the end the "how it was done" was just as important than "what was done". That's why if robots take over, I can't help but see that these people will miss something they loved. You can say that's the price to pay but, go and say that in front of them; you'll understand what the "it's-logical-unescapable" kind of argument really means...
- studentrob 10y ago
  > that was a job and they had pride in being employed and useful Thank you for saying this. Not many people on HN mention that.
- altonzheng 10y ago
  Definitely, what makes sense economically on a macro scale ignores all the micro, very human, factors involved. I have nothing to say but to be grateful for the position that I, and a lot of fellow HN'ers probably, are in.

Spooky23 10y ago

Some people lack creativity and initiative. They need to eat too.

SandersAK 10y ago

I can't project what your life situation is like, but it would be very very hard to find someone who could make a statement like this who has ever done or known someone who depended on a job like this to survive.

altonzheng 10y ago
Fair enough. I'm in a very good situation now, so I am speaking from a privileged position. However, I have worked as a cashier at a grocery store in the past (admittedly I didn't depend on it to survive.) I empathize with those hard workers who take pride in their job, but I feel like keeping jobs around for the sake of giving people livelihoods is a signal of something very flawed in how our economy, or even society, operates. I dream of a world where we collectively choose to work less, because robotics and AI has picked up the lion's share of labor.
- SandersAK 10y ago
  Yeah, I'm definitely not in disagreement. I just think often in tech we are so excited for a future that we see is potentially very close that we overlook some of the ramifications of those actions. It's not that I don't want a world where automation makes shit-work go away, it's that I want that future to be empathetic to, and understand that it needs to incorporate a solution for those who don't have the power to change their situation. Otherwise, what's the point?

wiz21 10y ago

My father was a "manager" of people doing that kind of ultra repetitive, not very smart, dirty-hands tasks. I was fortunate enough to meet some of them when I was 20 years old. This opened my eyes : - those people were not well educated so that kind of work was something they could do and for a decent salary - that was a job and they had pride in being employed and useful - that job was not mentally exhausting so they could think about something else or talk while working; many found that quite enjoyable, socially interesting if you will - they were doing different things, going from one "simple" task to another and so they all shared a knowledge ofthe build process they were involved in. They were proud of that as well. So well, those "not very interesting" tasks were actually taken care of very seriously and with pride. So in the end the "how it was done" was just as important than "what was done". That's why if robots take over, I can't help but see that these people will miss something they loved. You can say that's the price to pay but, go and say that in front of them; you'll understand what the "it's-logical-unescapable" kind of argument really means...

studentrob 10y ago
> that was a job and they had pride in being employed and useful Thank you for saying this. Not many people on HN mention that.
altonzheng 10y ago
Definitely, what makes sense economically on a macro scale ignores all the micro, very human, factors involved. I have nothing to say but to be grateful for the position that I, and a lot of fellow HN'ers probably, are in.