5 ms·

Well, presumably, there's rather a lot of people paying good money for access to this professor's time and would prefer not to have class disrupted by inconside

Well, presumably, there's rather a lot of people paying good money for access to this professor's time and would prefer not to have class disrupted by inconsiderate people coming and going for no good reason. Being a paying customer doesn't grant an entitlement to be obnoxious while on someone else's property and I can't fathom why you think it would. If you got kicked out a movie for talking on a cell phone during the film, would you call the theater "entitled" and ask who's paying who?

randyt00 17y ago
"Being a paying customer doesn't grant an entitlement to be obnoxious while on someone else's property and I can't fathom why you think it would." Straw man. Lame.
derefr 17y ago
In my experience, these people never actually disrupt the class, only the professor. I don't know why you used an analogy of cell-phone usage; the much more obvious analogue is people who come in half-way through a movie. Do we kick them out? Do you, personally, even get annoyed by such people, or do you just wave it off?
- Groxx 17y ago
  I've always seen this too. The classes where the prof doesn't make a big deal out of it? The lecture continues. Nobody remembers in 5 minutes, and everyone keeps going. More students pass the class too, as fewer end up annoyed / insulted that their non-laziness is being attacked, while everyone who simply didn't arrive is silently ignored. The classes where the prof does make a big deal out of it? Lots end up skipping over time, and everybody notices that someone came in because the prof takes time out of class to berate them, causing the prof to lose their (and their students) place in the lecture. The only "reason" I can see for behavior like that is that the professors are acting childish: they want to get even, at the expense of everyone's time, instead of getting over it.
  - btilly 17y ago
    What you don't see because it is invisible is that you've lost 5-10 minutes out of every hour of lecture time. And you don't realize that you're losing over 10% of the course you paid for because you don't realize what you could have had. I say this both as someone with a tendency to arrive late, and as someone who has taught classes. Before I tried to write up lesson plans and saw what those interruptions added up to in lost teaching, my sympathies would have been with the student. Now they are not.
    - Groxx 17y ago
      And in this you're assuming I'm the one arriving late and witnessing this? I certainly do occasionally, but I'm far from the worst in any of my classes. As to missing those 5-10 minutes, if they're that valuable, the students will either arrive or miss out. That's their choice. And I wholly feel that way. I'll also point out that many many professors spend those first 5-10 minutes doing very little to progress learning, instead going over the previous class or simply getting ready. Not all, and I'm not accusing you of it, it's just that it's most certainly not the most valuable period in a class. It's not your job as a teacher to make up their losses, it's your job to teach to the students. If those interruptions are taking teaching time away, it's because you are taking time away to deal with the interruption. That's your choice. All of the most effective lecturers and most valuable classes I've had have been taught by people who kept teaching, because these interruptions don't truly exist unless they're made to exist. The student comes in late? Then they have to pick up from where they came in. You don't need to point out to everyone that they came in, nor do you need to tell them everything they missed - they'll ask other students (who they likely know) if they're interested. And with two exceptions in my 5 years in college thus far, I've never missed anything in the first 15 minutes that I couldn't pick up in 5 minutes from paying attention from that point on. Those two exceptions were in art classes, when a demonstration was occurring. They couldn't rewind, and I didn't ask. It instead took me 5 minutes of experimenting and watching someone else go first, and then I was caught up. If the teacher had made me go first, it'd have been identical to stopping everything just to berate me; it's only purpose would have been to see me fail, wasting class time, which is infantile at best. Sadly, many teachers feel this need.
CamperBob 17y ago
If you got kicked out a movie for talking on a cell phone during the film, would you call the theater "entitled" and ask who's paying who? You want to think that through a little farther. If you got kicked out of a movie for getting up and going to the restroom, would you call the theatre "justified"? Because that's all this student's actions amounted to, at the end of the day. I doubt anybody even noticed the guy entering and leaving lectures until the good Professor threw a rod.

randyt00 17y ago

"Being a paying customer doesn't grant an entitlement to be obnoxious while on someone else's property and I can't fathom why you think it would." Straw man. Lame.

derefr 17y ago

In my experience, these people never actually disrupt the class, only the professor. I don't know why you used an analogy of cell-phone usage; the much more obvious analogue is people who come in half-way through a movie. Do we kick them out? Do you, personally, even get annoyed by such people, or do you just wave it off?

Groxx 17y ago
I've always seen this too. The classes where the prof doesn't make a big deal out of it? The lecture continues. Nobody remembers in 5 minutes, and everyone keeps going. More students pass the class too, as fewer end up annoyed / insulted that their non-laziness is being attacked, while everyone who simply didn't arrive is silently ignored. The classes where the prof does make a big deal out of it? Lots end up skipping over time, and everybody notices that someone came in because the prof takes time out of class to berate them, causing the prof to lose their (and their students) place in the lecture. The only "reason" I can see for behavior like that is that the professors are acting childish: they want to get even, at the expense of everyone's time, instead of getting over it.
- btilly 17y ago
  What you don't see because it is invisible is that you've lost 5-10 minutes out of every hour of lecture time. And you don't realize that you're losing over 10% of the course you paid for because you don't realize what you could have had. I say this both as someone with a tendency to arrive late, and as someone who has taught classes. Before I tried to write up lesson plans and saw what those interruptions added up to in lost teaching, my sympathies would have been with the student. Now they are not.
  - Groxx 17y ago
    And in this you're assuming I'm the one arriving late and witnessing this? I certainly do occasionally, but I'm far from the worst in any of my classes. As to missing those 5-10 minutes, if they're that valuable, the students will either arrive or miss out. That's their choice. And I wholly feel that way. I'll also point out that many many professors spend those first 5-10 minutes doing very little to progress learning, instead going over the previous class or simply getting ready. Not all, and I'm not accusing you of it, it's just that it's most certainly not the most valuable period in a class. It's not your job as a teacher to make up their losses, it's your job to teach to the students. If those interruptions are taking teaching time away, it's because you are taking time away to deal with the interruption. That's your choice. All of the most effective lecturers and most valuable classes I've had have been taught by people who kept teaching, because these interruptions don't truly exist unless they're made to exist. The student comes in late? Then they have to pick up from where they came in. You don't need to point out to everyone that they came in, nor do you need to tell them everything they missed - they'll ask other students (who they likely know) if they're interested. And with two exceptions in my 5 years in college thus far, I've never missed anything in the first 15 minutes that I couldn't pick up in 5 minutes from paying attention from that point on. Those two exceptions were in art classes, when a demonstration was occurring. They couldn't rewind, and I didn't ask. It instead took me 5 minutes of experimenting and watching someone else go first, and then I was caught up. If the teacher had made me go first, it'd have been identical to stopping everything just to berate me; it's only purpose would have been to see me fail, wasting class time, which is infantile at best. Sadly, many teachers feel this need.

CamperBob 17y ago

If you got kicked out a movie for talking on a cell phone during the film, would you call the theater "entitled" and ask who's paying who? You want to think that through a little farther. If you got kicked out of a movie for getting up and going to the restroom, would you call the theatre "justified"? Because that's all this student's actions amounted to, at the end of the day. I doubt anybody even noticed the guy entering and leaving lectures until the good Professor threw a rod.