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My current job has absolutely zero labor as part of my responsibilities. I do not move things, I do not shape things, I do not package, weld, bolt, grow, or man

My current job has absolutely zero labor as part of my responsibilities. I do not move things, I do not shape things, I do not package, weld, bolt, grow, or manufacture. What hard work? They need me to think. Clearly, intensely, brilliantly at times. Someone who 'shows up and does the work" will never be able to do what I do, because "showing up and doing the work" is the antithesis of thinking clearly and intensely. It's what unthinking people do. Here on Hacker News, I suspect most are more like me, and less like those who "show up and do the work". However, there are some vestigial counter-productive work ethics from the early 20th century that haven't completely withered. Or maybe it's just a metaphor that we can't let go of, one that feels important even though whatever it once described is now gone.

no_flags 10y ago
I interpreted the parent comment differently. To me, people who "show up" are those who are present, engaged, and making an effort to succeed in good faith. People who "hand in the work" are those who get stuff done, maybe not perfectly but they give it their best shot. They try. I agree with the original comment that these are crucial elements for success, and perhaps more valuable than raw intelligence. Thinking is an important part of the job for most people on HN, as you rightly noted, but thoughts must lead to actions to produce any sort of value for an employer. The action could be as "simple" as communicating a thought with others (not always simple!).
- NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
  My thoughts never lead to action. I sit in an office chair all day. That's it. No actual work, no actions, ever occur. It's not even fair to claim me clicking on a mouse or klacking on a keyboard are "actions"... at some point in the future they'll plug a jack into my skull and even those minimal physical movements will be a thing of the past. We're just not there yet. The sum total of everything I do is thought. Not action.
snowwrestler 10y ago
Thinking only changes things if it manifests itself as work of some kind. Perhaps you are a manager of a team. In that case your work is the communication with your staff, superiors, and peers, which must be complete, clear, and timely. Or perhaps you are a programmer. In that case your work is the actual writing of code, testing, debugging, deploying, and communicating to manage feedback and plan the next round of work. Knowing how to code up the next great new feature is not enough. It's not useful until it's coded and deployed, and that takes work.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
  > Thinking only changes things if it manifests itself as work of some kind. I never said I "changed" anything. Little bits get flipped on a hard disk somewhere, or in a ram chip. A computer spits out a different answer, or a new answer, or retains an old answer. Maybe it answers things it didn't answer before. But "work" and "change", these aren't words I'd ever use to describe that. > Perhaps you are a manager of a team. Nope, just got passed over for that promotion a few weeks ago. > In that case your work is the communication with Nope, that's not work either. Thinking out loud, maybe. > In that case your work is the actual writing of code, testing, debugging, deploying, Not work. My grandfather worked. Tried to farm on and off throughout his life. Also held down a job as a construction worker well into his 60s. He couldn't do what I do (he's pretty sharp, I think he would have had the mind for it... but his fingers are damn near 2 inches wide). To call what I do work would feels like an insult to him. Though I think he's proud that I do what I do, rather than what he did. Work is physical labor. Not everyone is employed to do actual work. Some are in offices, some supervise. They even (often) earn/deserve what they get. Doesn't make it work though. In a way, considering that the software I produce reduces the need for actual work, I do anti-work. Less of it is accomplished because of my efforts.

no_flags 10y ago

I interpreted the parent comment differently. To me, people who "show up" are those who are present, engaged, and making an effort to succeed in good faith. People who "hand in the work" are those who get stuff done, maybe not perfectly but they give it their best shot. They try. I agree with the original comment that these are crucial elements for success, and perhaps more valuable than raw intelligence. Thinking is an important part of the job for most people on HN, as you rightly noted, but thoughts must lead to actions to produce any sort of value for an employer. The action could be as "simple" as communicating a thought with others (not always simple!).

NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
My thoughts never lead to action. I sit in an office chair all day. That's it. No actual work, no actions, ever occur. It's not even fair to claim me clicking on a mouse or klacking on a keyboard are "actions"... at some point in the future they'll plug a jack into my skull and even those minimal physical movements will be a thing of the past. We're just not there yet. The sum total of everything I do is thought. Not action.

snowwrestler 10y ago

Thinking only changes things if it manifests itself as work of some kind. Perhaps you are a manager of a team. In that case your work is the communication with your staff, superiors, and peers, which must be complete, clear, and timely. Or perhaps you are a programmer. In that case your work is the actual writing of code, testing, debugging, deploying, and communicating to manage feedback and plan the next round of work. Knowing how to code up the next great new feature is not enough. It's not useful until it's coded and deployed, and that takes work.

NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
> Thinking only changes things if it manifests itself as work of some kind. I never said I "changed" anything. Little bits get flipped on a hard disk somewhere, or in a ram chip. A computer spits out a different answer, or a new answer, or retains an old answer. Maybe it answers things it didn't answer before. But "work" and "change", these aren't words I'd ever use to describe that. > Perhaps you are a manager of a team. Nope, just got passed over for that promotion a few weeks ago. > In that case your work is the communication with Nope, that's not work either. Thinking out loud, maybe. > In that case your work is the actual writing of code, testing, debugging, deploying, Not work. My grandfather worked. Tried to farm on and off throughout his life. Also held down a job as a construction worker well into his 60s. He couldn't do what I do (he's pretty sharp, I think he would have had the mind for it... but his fingers are damn near 2 inches wide). To call what I do work would feels like an insult to him. Though I think he's proud that I do what I do, rather than what he did. Work is physical labor. Not everyone is employed to do actual work. Some are in offices, some supervise. They even (often) earn/deserve what they get. Doesn't make it work though. In a way, considering that the software I produce reduces the need for actual work, I do anti-work. Less of it is accomplished because of my efforts.