4 ms·

I would be more optimistic here. AM/Eurisko never showed any replicated results outside of one or two toy domains of simple math & the Traveler's game, and ther

by aab0 10y ago

I would be more optimistic here. AM/Eurisko never showed any replicated results outside of one or two toy domains of simple math & the Traveler's game, and there's always been a lot of questions about how much of that much was even AM/Eurisko and how much was Lenat since he refuses to share source code and his followup project Cyc is notorious for not delivering anything. While on the other hand, deep networks have delivered astounding results on a huge variety of domains when implemented in different frameworks by different people around the world often taking quite different deep approaches. A result from AM/Eurisko doesn't mean much. A result from a deep network may be a crack in the dike which is about to explode and solve longstanding challenges like Imagenet.

DonaldFisk 10y ago
In AM: A Case Study in AI Methodology by G.D. Ritchie and F.K. Hanna (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220547429_AM_a_case_study_in_AI_methodology https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220547429_AM_a_case...), a paper critical of Lenat's work on AM, it is, however, stated that "Lenat has attempted (more than most other workers in AI) to render his program available to public assessment, both by making it available for running and by supplying such detailed appendices in his thesis. The whole discussion in this paper could not have commenced if Lenat had not provided this unusual level of documentation. " As for Eurisko, I'm unaware of the source code being made publicly available, and several people appeared to have asked for the source, without success. However, I think enough has been published on Eurisko to reproduce it, or something similar, from scratch. OpenCyc (http://opencyc.org/ http://opencyc.org/) was released in 2012, and is available on SourceForge. Cyc was released earlier this year (https://www.lucid.ai/press-releases/mit-tech-review-an-ai-with-30-years-worth-of-knowledge-finally-goes-to-work https://www.lucid.ai/press-releases/mit-tech-review-an-ai-wi...). Lucid (https://www.lucid.ai/ https://www.lucid.ai/) has several case studies of applications of Cyc by Cleveland Clinic, the U.S. Forest Service, a Large Global Bank, and a Global Energy Company.
gambler 10y ago
You're comparing a single system developed years ago to everything ever produced with neural networks (which refer to a whole family of different architectures). > A result from AM/Eurisko doesn't mean much. A result from a deep network may be a crack in the dike which is about to explode and solve longstanding challenges like Imagenet. Sounds like extreme and unsubstantiated bias. Statements like this is why I am highly skeptical of the current neural network hype.
- aab0 10y ago
  > You're comparing a single system developed years ago to everything ever produced with neural networks I am comparing a single system and all its variants and followups to another family. Oh wait, there aren't any variants and followups to AM/Eurisko except Cyc. Huh. How about that. > Sounds like extreme and unsubstantiated bias. ImageNet? AlphaGo? SOTA on language parsing, classification, and prediction tasks? Human-level performance on scores of Atari games? High-quality image synthesis, unsupervised and from textual descriptions? Predictions of visual cortex activations? Program synthesis? If you aren't impressed, you aren't paying attention.
  - gambler 10y ago
    You've watched far too many Hinton videos. Cyc belongs to the family of rule-based expert systems. Expert systems were successfully used in medical diagnostics, chemistry, biology and various branches of engineering. Not to mention countless "trivial" applications in planning and logistics for businesses. I could also make a case that DeepBlue was an expert system, and thus add "superhuman performance in chess" to the list. Saying that results from an expert system don't matter (simply because it's an expert system), while believing equivalent results from an ANN will "explode and solve longstanding challenges" (simply because it's "neural") makes no sense. ANNs are not magic.

by aab0 10y ago

DonaldFisk 10y ago

In AM: A Case Study in AI Methodology by G.D. Ritchie and F.K. Hanna (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220547429_AM_a_case_study_in_AI_methodology https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220547429_AM_a_case...), a paper critical of Lenat's work on AM, it is, however, stated that "Lenat has attempted (more than most other workers in AI) to render his program available to public assessment, both by making it available for running and by supplying such detailed appendices in his thesis. The whole discussion in this paper could not have commenced if Lenat had not provided this unusual level of documentation. " As for Eurisko, I'm unaware of the source code being made publicly available, and several people appeared to have asked for the source, without success. However, I think enough has been published on Eurisko to reproduce it, or something similar, from scratch. OpenCyc (http://opencyc.org/ http://opencyc.org/) was released in 2012, and is available on SourceForge. Cyc was released earlier this year (https://www.lucid.ai/press-releases/mit-tech-review-an-ai-with-30-years-worth-of-knowledge-finally-goes-to-work https://www.lucid.ai/press-releases/mit-tech-review-an-ai-wi...). Lucid (https://www.lucid.ai/ https://www.lucid.ai/) has several case studies of applications of Cyc by Cleveland Clinic, the U.S. Forest Service, a Large Global Bank, and a Global Energy Company.

gambler 10y ago

You're comparing a single system developed years ago to everything ever produced with neural networks (which refer to a whole family of different architectures). > A result from AM/Eurisko doesn't mean much. A result from a deep network may be a crack in the dike which is about to explode and solve longstanding challenges like Imagenet. Sounds like extreme and unsubstantiated bias. Statements like this is why I am highly skeptical of the current neural network hype.

aab0 10y ago
> You're comparing a single system developed years ago to everything ever produced with neural networks I am comparing a single system and all its variants and followups to another family. Oh wait, there aren't any variants and followups to AM/Eurisko except Cyc. Huh. How about that. > Sounds like extreme and unsubstantiated bias. ImageNet? AlphaGo? SOTA on language parsing, classification, and prediction tasks? Human-level performance on scores of Atari games? High-quality image synthesis, unsupervised and from textual descriptions? Predictions of visual cortex activations? Program synthesis? If you aren't impressed, you aren't paying attention.
- gambler 10y ago
  You've watched far too many Hinton videos. Cyc belongs to the family of rule-based expert systems. Expert systems were successfully used in medical diagnostics, chemistry, biology and various branches of engineering. Not to mention countless "trivial" applications in planning and logistics for businesses. I could also make a case that DeepBlue was an expert system, and thus add "superhuman performance in chess" to the list. Saying that results from an expert system don't matter (simply because it's an expert system), while believing equivalent results from an ANN will "explode and solve longstanding challenges" (simply because it's "neural") makes no sense. ANNs are not magic.