3 ms·

It seems there's a big conflation between DRM (things that actually restrict how you can use your digital goods) and per-customer builds (things that identify y

by shazow 10y ago

It seems there's a big conflation between DRM (things that actually restrict how you can use your digital goods) and per-customer builds (things that identify you as the owner but don't necessarily restrict usage, like watermarks). The way I understand it, CEG works by signing the binary to a specific Steam account for when Steam is used. It does not prevent any portability or introduce access control for when Steam is not used, right? That is, if I'm offline or just have a backup of the game install without Steam, CEG has no effect on me (assuming the game's integrations with Steamworks are not a requirement for the game to function). At least Valve/Gaben has gone on record on several occasions to say that the digital assets are structured in such a way that they'll continue to work even if Steam/Valve disappears (dies or what have you). It might have been a couple of years, but I'm assuming this is still true. Edit: Btw, just to be clear, I constantly rely on this functionality. I play tons of games that I buy on Steam while I'm offline (mostly during travel and such). If I needed to be online for my purchases to work, I wouldn't be using Steam anymore.

SquareWheel 10y ago
>The way I understand it, CEG works by signing the binary to a specific Steam account for when Steam is used. I don't know the technical specifics, but I'm sure that's true. However, I'd argue this is still an implementation of DRM as it goes beyond just watermarking. Offline mode works because it previously downloaded your authorizations from Valve, and those are cached offline for a period. But there's still a key and lock system in place that needs to be met. That is, if you were to copy your game install folder for a title that uses CEG, you would have problems running that executable. Titles without CEG would still work, assuming there's no other issues like missing registry keys, %APPDATA% entries, etc... (one of the reasons a DRM-free installer is important to me -- improved portability). I admit Steam DRM is fairly unobtrusive, and its offline mode works way better than it used to a few years ago. >At least Valve/Gaben has gone on record on several occasions to say that the digital assets are structured in such a way that they'll continue to work even if Steam/Valve disappears (dies or what have you). Just to clarify, is this the same quote of "If Steam ever goes under, we'll release a patch to remove the DRM"? Because I've been following and trying to track down that pernicious quote for years, and have never once found a credible source on the matter. It's always "archived post of forum moderator", or "tier 1 support supposedly said". But never a credible source from the company, in the Terms of Service, or anything that would hold up. I'm pretty convinced at this point people only pass it around because it's a comfortable lie. I'm not sure if that's the same quote you were going for, however. How the assets are structured seems like it could be a different issue. >If I needed to be online for my purchases to work, I wouldn't be using Steam anymore. As I understand, you still need to go online for the initial run, correct? And also if there's been any updates/patches I believe.
- shazow 10y ago
  > That is, if you were to copy your game install folder for a title that uses CEG, you would have problems running that executable. I don't believe this is true. The "backup game content" flow is fairly solid. Only time you'll run into issues if you try to import it into another online Steam account. > Just to clarify, is this the same quote of "If Steam ever goes under, we'll release a patch to remove the DRM"? Because I've been following and trying to track down that pernicious quote for years, and have never once found a credible source on the matter. [...] I've seen variations of it in a few places. It wasn't "we'll release a patch", it was more "your games will continue to work even if Steam disappears." I was just listening to an interview with Gaben on The Nerdist (circa 2013ish?) and I believe he said that there as well. The first of the two parts. I mean this isn't hard to validate. Go offline, see if your games continue work. It's not like EA's Origin or Sony's always-on stuff. > As I understand, you still need to go online for the initial run, correct? And also if there's been any updates/patches I believe. If you're running from a backup copy, you don't need to go online for the initial run. If you want to download updates/patches from Steam, then yes you need to be online to do online things.
  - SquareWheel 10y ago
    Thanks for the info.

by shazow 10y ago

SquareWheel 10y ago

>The way I understand it, CEG works by signing the binary to a specific Steam account for when Steam is used. I don't know the technical specifics, but I'm sure that's true. However, I'd argue this is still an implementation of DRM as it goes beyond just watermarking. Offline mode works because it previously downloaded your authorizations from Valve, and those are cached offline for a period. But there's still a key and lock system in place that needs to be met. That is, if you were to copy your game install folder for a title that uses CEG, you would have problems running that executable. Titles without CEG would still work, assuming there's no other issues like missing registry keys, %APPDATA% entries, etc... (one of the reasons a DRM-free installer is important to me -- improved portability). I admit Steam DRM is fairly unobtrusive, and its offline mode works way better than it used to a few years ago. >At least Valve/Gaben has gone on record on several occasions to say that the digital assets are structured in such a way that they'll continue to work even if Steam/Valve disappears (dies or what have you). Just to clarify, is this the same quote of "If Steam ever goes under, we'll release a patch to remove the DRM"? Because I've been following and trying to track down that pernicious quote for years, and have never once found a credible source on the matter. It's always "archived post of forum moderator", or "tier 1 support supposedly said". But never a credible source from the company, in the Terms of Service, or anything that would hold up. I'm pretty convinced at this point people only pass it around because it's a comfortable lie. I'm not sure if that's the same quote you were going for, however. How the assets are structured seems like it could be a different issue. >If I needed to be online for my purchases to work, I wouldn't be using Steam anymore. As I understand, you still need to go online for the initial run, correct? And also if there's been any updates/patches I believe.

shazow 10y ago
> That is, if you were to copy your game install folder for a title that uses CEG, you would have problems running that executable. I don't believe this is true. The "backup game content" flow is fairly solid. Only time you'll run into issues if you try to import it into another online Steam account. > Just to clarify, is this the same quote of "If Steam ever goes under, we'll release a patch to remove the DRM"? Because I've been following and trying to track down that pernicious quote for years, and have never once found a credible source on the matter. [...] I've seen variations of it in a few places. It wasn't "we'll release a patch", it was more "your games will continue to work even if Steam disappears." I was just listening to an interview with Gaben on The Nerdist (circa 2013ish?) and I believe he said that there as well. The first of the two parts. I mean this isn't hard to validate. Go offline, see if your games continue work. It's not like EA's Origin or Sony's always-on stuff. > As I understand, you still need to go online for the initial run, correct? And also if there's been any updates/patches I believe. If you're running from a backup copy, you don't need to go online for the initial run. If you want to download updates/patches from Steam, then yes you need to be online to do online things.
- SquareWheel 10y ago
  Thanks for the info.