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Android On Lockdown: AT&T Removes Best Parts of Android from Backflip

26 points by bensummers 17y ago

Batsu 17y ago
It seems wrong to do this, but in a related thought, I imagine the people savvy enough to know there are apps outside the market will realize they can also install other ROMs.
- jrockway 17y ago
  Installing ROMs is not trivial unless the handset manufacturer wants it to be. Look at the Archos device, for example.
  - aschobel 17y ago
    It really depends on the carrier. I've had great luck rooting the G1, MyTouch, and N1. N1 is the easiest of the bunch.
    - martey 17y ago
      Being that all three of those phones are made by HTC, I think jrockway's point still stands.
shareme 17y ago
It really sucks from a developer perspective in that one of the major differences between iphone and android is that you could download an apk from non market sources and now they remove that choice from users grasp.
- jsz0 17y ago
  It also sucks for developers that Motorola is still actively releasing new Android devices with such dated hardware. This is basically a glorified G1 (~500Mhz CPU, 256MB RAM) I'm not sure how that's going to play when we're very likely to see 1.5Ghz multi core CPUs with 4x+ as much RAM being released this year That's quite a big gap in specs between the low end and high end for brand new devices that are going to be in use 2 years from now and beyond.
epochwolf 17y ago
Great... they turned their Android phone into an iPhone. Might as well just buy the real thing if you are going to AT&T for the network. (And why would you do that?)
cryptnoob 17y ago
They should never have been allowed to sell an Android phone in the first place. They're probably trying to promote their cash cow, the iPhone by crippling Android in the court of public opinion.
- jsz0 17y ago
  Allowed by whom? Google went out of their way to give handset makers and carriers almost total control over how they choose to package Android. I suspect we'll see more of this simply because the carriers will want to create a low end SmartPhone market to replace the dumb phones out there. They'll only run a few carrier approved apps and may not have access to the regular Android Market but instead a carrier run market instead. I know in the on-going Internet race to judgement Android has been anointed the White Knight role but Google's choice to give carriers/handset makers so much control over how Android gets into consumer hands is nothing to be proud of. We shouldn't be cheering on a solution that really isn't nearly as open as people suggest. Even a more legitimate Android phone like the Droid or N1 is crippled from doing wifi tethering unless you root/jailbreak it. Why? Because carriers didn't like it. If we're really looking for a 100% open mobile platform Android isn't really the solution. It's probably the best bet out there today but that should not stop us from pointing out why it's also restrictive.
  - aschobel 17y ago
    Tethering app was only removed from the US T-Mobile store, it is available everywhere else. http://androidcommunity.com/google-allowing-tethering-apps-for-non-t-mobile-users-20090402/ http://androidcommunity.com/google-allowing-tethering-apps-f...
    - jsz0 17y ago
      They still do not allow wifi tethering apps unfortunately -- or they are blocked on Sprint (HTC Hero)
      - aschobel 17y ago
jackowayed 17y ago
How hard and problematic is it to just install the normal Android OS on phones that come with weird kinds? And does it end up not quite fitting the specific handset as well?
- there 17y ago
  it varies by handset. my mytouch 3g took a lengthy process involving 2 microsd cards, a hex editor, submitting some id numbers specific to my phone/microsd cards to some random website and getting emailed a "gold" file, and reflashing various files. my nexus one took all of going into the settings and unlocking it, then reflashing a cyanogen firmware that had been downloaded to the phone. i would imagine that if at&t is locking down this particular phone, they are (or have instructed motorola to) lock down the firmware reflashing process.
- aschobel 17y ago
  If you get the phone from Google or T-Mobile it is trivial to root them and install your own firmware. Hopefully Motorola won't lock down the bootloader too badly on AT&T.
esornoso 17y ago
It should be renamed "Appldroid" and not Android. It's misleading.
- indy 17y ago
  Does Google place any restrictions on the changes that can be made to a phone and still being able to market it as an Android?
necrecious 17y ago
Hmm, if the best part of Android is the free wheeling, beloved by geeks and not anyone else store, then I am not sure if Android is the competitor I thought it is. A locked down store is totally what carriers want. They want the revenue stream from selling the apps. That's how the market was before iPhone. So until Google force carriers to have a common store, I see more and more carriers adopt this model.
greenlblue 17y ago
I think it's a little misleading to judge carriers and phone manufacturers by open source standards. Although open source standards often promote innovation and bring value to the market because of the service oriented industries that pop up based on them I don't see the same kind of thing happening for phones. So tighter control is not necessarily a bad thing.
- shareme 17y ago
  It is a bad thing, any enterprise that wants to deploy their own android software to device they paid for now has to choose a different carrier than AT and T.. Its why Enterprises do not use iPhone in the first place..
  - bensummers 17y ago
    Do you have some figures about iPhone and Android usage within 'Enterprises'? Please share! The iPhone can be turned into a boring and controlled device for soul destroying enterprises. Have a read of this: http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/Enterprise_Deployment_Guide.pdf http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/Enterprise_Deployment_Gu... And despair that large organisations hire people who can't be trusted with a web browser on their phone.
edwilliams612 17y ago
I thought the best part of Android was that there is very little oversight as to what you can put out on the Android Market, making secondary markets unneeded. Although I have had a hard time finding a decent tethering application in the Android Market.. maybe AT&T is afraid that disobey the little rules there are will be bandwidth intensive, threatening their already feeble network?

26 points by bensummers 17y ago

Batsu 17y ago

It seems wrong to do this, but in a related thought, I imagine the people savvy enough to know there are apps outside the market will realize they can also install other ROMs.

jrockway 17y ago
Installing ROMs is not trivial unless the handset manufacturer wants it to be. Look at the Archos device, for example.
- aschobel 17y ago
  It really depends on the carrier. I've had great luck rooting the G1, MyTouch, and N1. N1 is the easiest of the bunch.
  - martey 17y ago
    Being that all three of those phones are made by HTC, I think jrockway's point still stands.

shareme 17y ago

It really sucks from a developer perspective in that one of the major differences between iphone and android is that you could download an apk from non market sources and now they remove that choice from users grasp.

jsz0 17y ago
It also sucks for developers that Motorola is still actively releasing new Android devices with such dated hardware. This is basically a glorified G1 (~500Mhz CPU, 256MB RAM) I'm not sure how that's going to play when we're very likely to see 1.5Ghz multi core CPUs with 4x+ as much RAM being released this year That's quite a big gap in specs between the low end and high end for brand new devices that are going to be in use 2 years from now and beyond.

epochwolf 17y ago

Great... they turned their Android phone into an iPhone. Might as well just buy the real thing if you are going to AT&T for the network. (And why would you do that?)

cryptnoob 17y ago

They should never have been allowed to sell an Android phone in the first place. They're probably trying to promote their cash cow, the iPhone by crippling Android in the court of public opinion.

jsz0 17y ago
Allowed by whom? Google went out of their way to give handset makers and carriers almost total control over how they choose to package Android. I suspect we'll see more of this simply because the carriers will want to create a low end SmartPhone market to replace the dumb phones out there. They'll only run a few carrier approved apps and may not have access to the regular Android Market but instead a carrier run market instead. I know in the on-going Internet race to judgement Android has been anointed the White Knight role but Google's choice to give carriers/handset makers so much control over how Android gets into consumer hands is nothing to be proud of. We shouldn't be cheering on a solution that really isn't nearly as open as people suggest. Even a more legitimate Android phone like the Droid or N1 is crippled from doing wifi tethering unless you root/jailbreak it. Why? Because carriers didn't like it. If we're really looking for a 100% open mobile platform Android isn't really the solution. It's probably the best bet out there today but that should not stop us from pointing out why it's also restrictive.
- aschobel 17y ago
  Tethering app was only removed from the US T-Mobile store, it is available everywhere else. http://androidcommunity.com/google-allowing-tethering-apps-for-non-t-mobile-users-20090402/ http://androidcommunity.com/google-allowing-tethering-apps-f...
  - jsz0 17y ago
    They still do not allow wifi tethering apps unfortunately -- or they are blocked on Sprint (HTC Hero)
    - aschobel 17y ago

jackowayed 17y ago

How hard and problematic is it to just install the normal Android OS on phones that come with weird kinds? And does it end up not quite fitting the specific handset as well?

there 17y ago
it varies by handset. my mytouch 3g took a lengthy process involving 2 microsd cards, a hex editor, submitting some id numbers specific to my phone/microsd cards to some random website and getting emailed a "gold" file, and reflashing various files. my nexus one took all of going into the settings and unlocking it, then reflashing a cyanogen firmware that had been downloaded to the phone. i would imagine that if at&t is locking down this particular phone, they are (or have instructed motorola to) lock down the firmware reflashing process.
aschobel 17y ago
If you get the phone from Google or T-Mobile it is trivial to root them and install your own firmware. Hopefully Motorola won't lock down the bootloader too badly on AT&T.

esornoso 17y ago

It should be renamed "Appldroid" and not Android. It's misleading.

indy 17y ago
Does Google place any restrictions on the changes that can be made to a phone and still being able to market it as an Android?

necrecious 17y ago

Hmm, if the best part of Android is the free wheeling, beloved by geeks and not anyone else store, then I am not sure if Android is the competitor I thought it is. A locked down store is totally what carriers want. They want the revenue stream from selling the apps. That's how the market was before iPhone. So until Google force carriers to have a common store, I see more and more carriers adopt this model.

greenlblue 17y ago

I think it's a little misleading to judge carriers and phone manufacturers by open source standards. Although open source standards often promote innovation and bring value to the market because of the service oriented industries that pop up based on them I don't see the same kind of thing happening for phones. So tighter control is not necessarily a bad thing.

shareme 17y ago
It is a bad thing, any enterprise that wants to deploy their own android software to device they paid for now has to choose a different carrier than AT and T.. Its why Enterprises do not use iPhone in the first place..
- bensummers 17y ago
  Do you have some figures about iPhone and Android usage within 'Enterprises'? Please share! The iPhone can be turned into a boring and controlled device for soul destroying enterprises. Have a read of this: http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/Enterprise_Deployment_Guide.pdf http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/Enterprise_Deployment_Gu... And despair that large organisations hire people who can't be trusted with a web browser on their phone.

edwilliams612 17y ago

I thought the best part of Android was that there is very little oversight as to what you can put out on the Android Market, making secondary markets unneeded. Although I have had a hard time finding a decent tethering application in the Android Market.. maybe AT&T is afraid that disobey the little rules there are will be bandwidth intensive, threatening their already feeble network?