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Linux Game Publishing introduces DRM - Ubi take note

37 points by dirtbox 17y ago

grogers 17y ago
"If you change the password for one copy of the game, you will then be locked out of all copies of the game, until you re-enter the new password for each of them on startup." I don't understand this. You do not need to be connected to the internet to play, so once you install the game with a legitimate key/password, what triggers it to require you to enter a new password. Also, you don't need to be on the internet to install, so if a key/password combination is valid for the install, and you can change your password - what is to stop you from using any password you want?
- deleted 17y ago
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- ekiru 17y ago
  According to a link in an uncle post, the system doesn't require an internet connection because it assumes that a user should be allowed to install or play the game unless it can verify that said user should not. To prove that the user doesn't have a legitimate copy requires an internet connection, so in the absence of an internet connection, it lets you play without verification, but when the game is able to contact their keyserver, it will only let you play if it can verify that yours is a legitimate copy(with the key and password combination that you entered on install).
  - tensor 17y ago
    So it can be circumvented just by unplugging a cable. I guess it can work for multiplayer games, but then don't most of those require valid accounts some where online in the first place? At any rate, it's much kinder to legal buyers than most systems. Steam is also an example of DRM done right.
    - sadiq 17y ago
      I'm not entirely convinced Steam is. There's no ability to resell or transfer licenses (which this system provides) and your entire games catalog is reliant on Valve, indefinitely, whatever shape or ownership they may be under in 5 or 10 years time.
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Xurinos 17y ago
Or don't use DRM at all. Instead of relying on a single instance of a product making money for years to come, focus more on new games or in-game content sales. Better yet, focus more on positive features and bugfixes/polish for present games than on ways to defeat crackers. Knowing your limitations, try social solutions for social problems. Make your brand the trusted good source for awesome games of your niche. More elaboration on that last tip: Warez and hacker sites have a deadly mix of people wanting to share things and people wanting to take advantage of sharers. Sure, you can get some game for free, or you can apply some patch that allows you to OPK people in an FPS, but you have to blindly trust whoever submitted that game/patch to have your best interests at heart. You have to ignore how, for example, some people playing the game of Combat Arms unknowingly spam their server chat with advertisements for the hack site. You have to believe that no one would put a backdoor on your system through your game and have access to any account and credit card information you may have stored via that game or on your computer. In other words, the system is about trust, and if your brand matches or exceeds its customers' expectations, you will earn and maintain their trust and their loyalty. Sure, some people may be cheap, but at the same time, they can be bought with a certain amount of guarantee of security. People are concerned about their things. Educate people more about these completely real and ongoing dangers -- most people have no idea they are part of a botnet, thanks to a little sneaky thing they thought they could do -- and litigate less. One makes you a hero, and the other paints you as a villain. One makes you an expert, and the other turns away customers.
- twinwing 17y ago
  I think that their target audience is already educated, and there's no way of generating trust from those who do not wish to pay. For many - myself included in my high school years - Linux is all about free as in beer.
  - _delirium 17y ago
    I don't see any particular aversion to buying games among Linux users, at least more than among Mac or Windows users. Linux users actually account for substantially larger proportions of indie-game sales than Linux marketshare would predict: http://www.koonsolo.com/news/linux-users-show-their-love-for-indie-game/ http://www.koonsolo.com/news/linux-users-show-their-love-for...
dirtbox 17y ago
Some more detailed info here http://blog.linuxgamepublishing.com/2009/02/27/answering-the-lgp-drm-questions/ http://blog.linuxgamepublishing.com/2009/02/27/answering-the...
sfgfdhgfdshdhhd 17y ago
If you're "forced to implement DRM", it's because you forced yourself into a position where you can't do anything better.
gdee 17y ago
Wow, they not only recognize (as we all know, many publishers, willingly, don't) but they actually take steps to facilitate the effects of the "first-sale doctrine"[1]. Hats off to that kind of treatment for their customers. Never heard of them before. I feel strangely impulsed to become a customer now. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
harshpotatoes 17y ago
I don't understand the negative comments towards drm in this thread. I thought the problems with drm were: I can't play the game without the internet, I can't play the game anywhere I want, I can't resell the game and treat it like there wasn't any drm. Isn't this exactly what we want in drm?! Are people here so angry about these protections they would refuse to shop at a store with a lock on the cash register. Or refuse to shop at a bookstore which refused to allow people to photocopy a book without purchasing said book?
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- dirtbox 17y ago
  Agreed. There is nothing wrong with protecting your work, just so long as that aspect is at no expense to your customer, and that's exactly what this is tailored to do. It's thoughtful, compassionate and convenient for everyone concerned. Nothing to argue against. Sadly it's likely to be hacked and cracked open within days, but I sincerely hope it gets the respect it deserves.
patio11 17y ago
Note point #5. There are variations on this which are very effective at limiting casual piracy. (I personally like "For your convenience, any computer you put your Registration Key into automatically gets to see your saved data." Obviously, you want to think through the security implications of that verrrrrrry carefully.)

37 points by dirtbox 17y ago

"If you change the password for one copy of the game, you will then be locked out of all copies of the game, until you re-enter the new password for each of them on startup." I don't understand this. You do not need to be connected to the internet to play, so once you install the game with a legitimate key/password, what triggers it to require you to enter a new password. Also, you don't need to be on the internet to install, so if a key/password combination is valid for the install, and you can change your password - what is to stop you from using any password you want?

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
ekiru 17y ago
According to a link in an uncle post, the system doesn't require an internet connection because it assumes that a user should be allowed to install or play the game unless it can verify that said user should not. To prove that the user doesn't have a legitimate copy requires an internet connection, so in the absence of an internet connection, it lets you play without verification, but when the game is able to contact their keyserver, it will only let you play if it can verify that yours is a legitimate copy(with the key and password combination that you entered on install).
- tensor 17y ago
  So it can be circumvented just by unplugging a cable. I guess it can work for multiplayer games, but then don't most of those require valid accounts some where online in the first place? At any rate, it's much kinder to legal buyers than most systems. Steam is also an example of DRM done right.
  - sadiq 17y ago
    I'm not entirely convinced Steam is. There's no ability to resell or transfer licenses (which this system provides) and your entire games catalog is reliant on Valve, indefinitely, whatever shape or ownership they may be under in 5 or 10 years time.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]

Xurinos 17y ago

Or don't use DRM at all. Instead of relying on a single instance of a product making money for years to come, focus more on new games or in-game content sales. Better yet, focus more on positive features and bugfixes/polish for present games than on ways to defeat crackers. Knowing your limitations, try social solutions for social problems. Make your brand the trusted good source for awesome games of your niche. More elaboration on that last tip: Warez and hacker sites have a deadly mix of people wanting to share things and people wanting to take advantage of sharers. Sure, you can get some game for free, or you can apply some patch that allows you to OPK people in an FPS, but you have to blindly trust whoever submitted that game/patch to have your best interests at heart. You have to ignore how, for example, some people playing the game of Combat Arms unknowingly spam their server chat with advertisements for the hack site. You have to believe that no one would put a backdoor on your system through your game and have access to any account and credit card information you may have stored via that game or on your computer. In other words, the system is about trust, and if your brand matches or exceeds its customers' expectations, you will earn and maintain their trust and their loyalty. Sure, some people may be cheap, but at the same time, they can be bought with a certain amount of guarantee of security. People are concerned about their things. Educate people more about these completely real and ongoing dangers -- most people have no idea they are part of a botnet, thanks to a little sneaky thing they thought they could do -- and litigate less. One makes you a hero, and the other paints you as a villain. One makes you an expert, and the other turns away customers.

twinwing 17y ago
I think that their target audience is already educated, and there's no way of generating trust from those who do not wish to pay. For many - myself included in my high school years - Linux is all about free as in beer.
- _delirium 17y ago
  I don't see any particular aversion to buying games among Linux users, at least more than among Mac or Windows users. Linux users actually account for substantially larger proportions of indie-game sales than Linux marketshare would predict: http://www.koonsolo.com/news/linux-users-show-their-love-for-indie-game/ http://www.koonsolo.com/news/linux-users-show-their-love-for...

dirtbox 17y ago

Some more detailed info here http://blog.linuxgamepublishing.com/2009/02/27/answering-the-lgp-drm-questions/ http://blog.linuxgamepublishing.com/2009/02/27/answering-the...

sfgfdhgfdshdhhd 17y ago

If you're "forced to implement DRM", it's because you forced yourself into a position where you can't do anything better.

gdee 17y ago

Wow, they not only recognize (as we all know, many publishers, willingly, don't) but they actually take steps to facilitate the effects of the "first-sale doctrine"[1]. Hats off to that kind of treatment for their customers. Never heard of them before. I feel strangely impulsed to become a customer now. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

harshpotatoes 17y ago

I don't understand the negative comments towards drm in this thread. I thought the problems with drm were: I can't play the game without the internet, I can't play the game anywhere I want, I can't resell the game and treat it like there wasn't any drm. Isn't this exactly what we want in drm?! Are people here so angry about these protections they would refuse to shop at a store with a lock on the cash register. Or refuse to shop at a bookstore which refused to allow people to photocopy a book without purchasing said book?

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
dirtbox 17y ago
Agreed. There is nothing wrong with protecting your work, just so long as that aspect is at no expense to your customer, and that's exactly what this is tailored to do. It's thoughtful, compassionate and convenient for everyone concerned. Nothing to argue against. Sadly it's likely to be hacked and cracked open within days, but I sincerely hope it gets the respect it deserves.

patio11 17y ago

Note point #5. There are variations on this which are very effective at limiting casual piracy. (I personally like "For your convenience, any computer you put your Registration Key into automatically gets to see your saved data." Obviously, you want to think through the security implications of that verrrrrrry carefully.)