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Google makes money in France. Given France's economy size, it's probably billions. They need to pay taxes to the french government for the privilege of doing bu

Google makes money in France. Given France's economy size, it's probably billions. They need to pay taxes to the french government for the privilege of doing business there, so the government can sped it on schools and other infrastructure, so the french citizens can be prosperous.

mike_hearn 10y ago
The idea that doing business is a "privilege" granted by the state is exactly why France's economy is famously bad, with unemployment double that of the UK.
- nametakenobv 10y ago
  This idea is in place for every government, everywhere in world, at any point in history.
  - JBReefer 10y ago
    Can you cite that? That's certainly not the opinion of ~50% of Americans
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      Which might explain why Americans are driven slave labor with little to no protections and a laughable excuse for social safety net. Just because an opinion is majority, does not make it intelligent, nor right.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- chillacy 10y ago
  Is doing business not a privilege elsewhere? In the US you need to register your business and pay taxes (money from corporations are doubly taxed as well). The only businesses here who don't do that are drug dealing / crime enterprises.
  - gnaritas 10y ago
    > money from corporations are doubly taxed as well No they are not. Money is always taxed when it changes ownership, as corporations are legal persons, it pays taxes on its profit. When shareholders are given some of that profit via dividends, that money is again changing ownership so it taxed as income to those shareholders. Saying something is double taxed is to misunderstand "when" tax applies. If you don't want company earnings taxed that way, don't be a C corp, but it isn't double taxing.
    - chillacy 10y ago
      Double taxation isn't just some vague term I made up: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double_taxation.asp http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double_taxation.asp What you described is commonly referred to as double taxation. I merely pointed out that this is more evidence that businesses are legal entities defined by the government. If businesses weren't legal entities, this wouldn't be an issue. However you could have noted that most corporate money is dished out as salaries and bonuses, which isn't taxed twice because the company can deduct it as a business expense.
      - gnaritas 10y ago
        > What you described is commonly referred to as double taxation Yes, just as liberals are referred to as leftists by conservatives, it's an inaccurate and derogatory means of referring to a perfectly normal tax practice whose sole purpose is intended to make the listener think it's unfair by glossing over the fact that money is taxed when it changes hands, not when it's earned. Anyone who calls it double taxation is participating in partisan propaganda and intentionally spreading ignorance.
        chillacy 10y ago
        Hmm, wasn't aware of that. I learned it in my econ textbook in high school, so I assumed it was standard terminology. My intention wasn't to offend, and I personally have no issue with the practice.
logicchains 10y ago
>the government can sped it on schools and other infrastructure, so the french citizens can be prosperous. One of the fundamental take-homes of economics is that government spending is not what makes people prosperous. It may help achieve social outcomes, slice the pie more evenly, but not make it bigger. See for instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PP..., and cross reference against tax rates; most of the countries above France have lower tax/government spending. Singapore, with a purchasing-power adjusted per-capita GDP double that of France, has a top tax rate of 20%, and unlike some of the other top countries on that list doesn't have any significant supply of natural resources to fund government spending.
- nametakenobv 10y ago
  I'm not even sure why you saying this. Google does not pay its taxes in France. Education, healthcare and law enforcement is what makes people prosperous. How do you propose to have them without taxes? Or are you saying that French government spends enough already and thus Google should avoid paying taxes if they don't feel like it?
  - logicchains 10y ago
    >Education, healthcare and law enforcement is what makes people prosperous. How do you propose to have them without taxes? >Or are you saying that French government spends enough already and thus Google should avoid paying taxes if they don't feel like it? I'm saying Google's paid all the taxes it's legally required to pay and has no moral compulsion to pay any extra. But yes, I do believe the French government spends enough already. If Singapore, Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Switzerland can achieve better education, health and crime rate outcomes than France although they have less government spending, maybe the French State should work on spending what it has more efficiently rather than just trying to take more and more.
    - nametakenobv 10y ago
      >I'm saying Google's paid all the taxes it's legally required You don't know that. The court will say if this is true or not. How can you make this judgement? Do you have a law degree? Do you have experience in international tax law? Have you seen all the relevant paperwork? >But yes, I do believe the French government spends enough already This is not pertinent to the case. If you want the french government to tax less, go and vote for it. Campaign for it. What would happen if everybody disregards any law they don't agree with?
puzzle 10y ago
Google sells ads through auctions, primarily. Do the auctions take place in France?
- stuaxo 10y ago
  One would imagine, that these are adverts served to French people by companies that want to sell products in France. The advert cost is based on views (I.E. eyeballs, of said French people in France).
  - puzzle 10y ago
    That's not answering the question at all. The service being sold is an auction. Who owns the machines that run the auctions? Google France?
    - nametakenobv 10y ago
      Governments tax generated income or goods sold or imported. Your question is non pertinent.
  - EdHominem 10y ago
    And France deserves a piece of this? That's silly. Like saying that Comcast deserves a piece of what I pay to Netflix. But robbing Peter to pay Paul is a valid political decision because you only have be appear to be doing something...
    - EdHominem 10y ago
      The idea that France is owed a piece of all media-spend directed towards french people is disgusting and legally unsupportable. The only reason it's even a debatable issue is that they forced Google to redirect the .com domain to the .fr domain for IPs geo-located in France. No country can be trusted with this power because this is only where it starts.
      - 10y ago

mike_hearn 10y ago

The idea that doing business is a "privilege" granted by the state is exactly why France's economy is famously bad, with unemployment double that of the UK.

nametakenobv 10y ago
This idea is in place for every government, everywhere in world, at any point in history.
- JBReefer 10y ago
  Can you cite that? That's certainly not the opinion of ~50% of Americans
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Which might explain why Americans are driven slave labor with little to no protections and a laughable excuse for social safety net. Just because an opinion is majority, does not make it intelligent, nor right.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
chillacy 10y ago
Is doing business not a privilege elsewhere? In the US you need to register your business and pay taxes (money from corporations are doubly taxed as well). The only businesses here who don't do that are drug dealing / crime enterprises.
- gnaritas 10y ago
  > money from corporations are doubly taxed as well No they are not. Money is always taxed when it changes ownership, as corporations are legal persons, it pays taxes on its profit. When shareholders are given some of that profit via dividends, that money is again changing ownership so it taxed as income to those shareholders. Saying something is double taxed is to misunderstand "when" tax applies. If you don't want company earnings taxed that way, don't be a C corp, but it isn't double taxing.
  - chillacy 10y ago
    Double taxation isn't just some vague term I made up: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double_taxation.asp http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double_taxation.asp What you described is commonly referred to as double taxation. I merely pointed out that this is more evidence that businesses are legal entities defined by the government. If businesses weren't legal entities, this wouldn't be an issue. However you could have noted that most corporate money is dished out as salaries and bonuses, which isn't taxed twice because the company can deduct it as a business expense.
    - gnaritas 10y ago
      > What you described is commonly referred to as double taxation Yes, just as liberals are referred to as leftists by conservatives, it's an inaccurate and derogatory means of referring to a perfectly normal tax practice whose sole purpose is intended to make the listener think it's unfair by glossing over the fact that money is taxed when it changes hands, not when it's earned. Anyone who calls it double taxation is participating in partisan propaganda and intentionally spreading ignorance.
      - chillacy 10y ago
        Hmm, wasn't aware of that. I learned it in my econ textbook in high school, so I assumed it was standard terminology. My intention wasn't to offend, and I personally have no issue with the practice.

logicchains 10y ago

>the government can sped it on schools and other infrastructure, so the french citizens can be prosperous. One of the fundamental take-homes of economics is that government spending is not what makes people prosperous. It may help achieve social outcomes, slice the pie more evenly, but not make it bigger. See for instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PP..., and cross reference against tax rates; most of the countries above France have lower tax/government spending. Singapore, with a purchasing-power adjusted per-capita GDP double that of France, has a top tax rate of 20%, and unlike some of the other top countries on that list doesn't have any significant supply of natural resources to fund government spending.

nametakenobv 10y ago
I'm not even sure why you saying this. Google does not pay its taxes in France. Education, healthcare and law enforcement is what makes people prosperous. How do you propose to have them without taxes? Or are you saying that French government spends enough already and thus Google should avoid paying taxes if they don't feel like it?
- logicchains 10y ago
  >Education, healthcare and law enforcement is what makes people prosperous. How do you propose to have them without taxes? >Or are you saying that French government spends enough already and thus Google should avoid paying taxes if they don't feel like it? I'm saying Google's paid all the taxes it's legally required to pay and has no moral compulsion to pay any extra. But yes, I do believe the French government spends enough already. If Singapore, Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Switzerland can achieve better education, health and crime rate outcomes than France although they have less government spending, maybe the French State should work on spending what it has more efficiently rather than just trying to take more and more.
  - nametakenobv 10y ago
    >I'm saying Google's paid all the taxes it's legally required You don't know that. The court will say if this is true or not. How can you make this judgement? Do you have a law degree? Do you have experience in international tax law? Have you seen all the relevant paperwork? >But yes, I do believe the French government spends enough already This is not pertinent to the case. If you want the french government to tax less, go and vote for it. Campaign for it. What would happen if everybody disregards any law they don't agree with?

puzzle 10y ago

Google sells ads through auctions, primarily. Do the auctions take place in France?

stuaxo 10y ago
One would imagine, that these are adverts served to French people by companies that want to sell products in France. The advert cost is based on views (I.E. eyeballs, of said French people in France).
- puzzle 10y ago
  That's not answering the question at all. The service being sold is an auction. Who owns the machines that run the auctions? Google France?
  - nametakenobv 10y ago
    Governments tax generated income or goods sold or imported. Your question is non pertinent.
- EdHominem 10y ago
  And France deserves a piece of this? That's silly. Like saying that Comcast deserves a piece of what I pay to Netflix. But robbing Peter to pay Paul is a valid political decision because you only have be appear to be doing something...
  - EdHominem 10y ago
    The idea that France is owed a piece of all media-spend directed towards french people is disgusting and legally unsupportable. The only reason it's even a debatable issue is that they forced Google to redirect the .com domain to the .fr domain for IPs geo-located in France. No country can be trusted with this power because this is only where it starts.
    - 10y ago