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Not ironic at all, just coincidence. Of course there are situations out of our control like recession and war. But blaming others doesn't actually fix anythin
by adwf 10y ago
Not ironic at all, just coincidence. Of course there are situations out of our control like recession and war. But blaming others doesn't actually fix anything. All that anti-globalisation will do is massively raise prices on everything.
In my grandfathers era, a working man would have two sets of clothes, one for work and one for sunday best. Nowadays, even the poorest in a western society have a plethora of clothing. That is down to cheap chinese labour.
You can't get round it; if you raise tariffs, you end up with expensive chinese clothes. If you then build your own factories and bring it back onshore, you end up with expensive western-made clothes. The people may have good old-fashioned industrial jobs, but they can no longer afford to live. And that's before you even get into retaliatory tarriffs, where our high-price items suddenly lose half their export market. How much of Apple's revenue growth over the last few years has been from iPhone sales in China?
- jules 10y agoHow did you jump from talking about racists to tariffs for China?
- adwf 10y agoBecause the original comment I responded to was about globalism. My response assumed that talking about Trump and globalism was dog-whistling for the less pleasant elements of society and so touched on both racism and real economic issues.
- jules 10y ago> My response assumed that talking about Trump and globalism was dog-whistling for the less pleasant elements of society Yes, and my response was precisely about that assumption, which is really a different issue than economic policies like tariffs for China. This doesn't just apply to the reaction to Trump, but also to the reaction to the (supposed) rise of the right in Europe, the main topic. The assumption that these people are voting like that because they're stupid and racist is going to kill the left.
- adwf 10y agoWell, actually you were the one to call them "stupid racists", there was no mention of it in my original comment. I was pointing out that people are quick to blame the personal failings of others, "lazy welfare scroungers" rather than debate the actual economic issues behind globalism.
- jules 10y agoCome on, your whole comment was about people being stupid and racist. Here's one line: "It's far easier to blame "those dirty foreigners" than it is to accept the vagaries of economics.". The rest was very much in the same spirit. Entertain the idea that if people vote in a way that you don't like, it might not necessarily be for reasons that are irrational and bigoted. Rather than analysing their supposed psychological pathologies to explain why they have a different opinion than yourself, maybe just talk to them? I'd ask somebody who says "those dirty foreigners" the same question: why not talk to them? Perhaps they turn out to be decent people after all.
- adwf 10y agoNope, original comment was nothing to do with stupidity or racism, just human nature that it's easier to lay the blame abroad rather than look inward. I know and have debated many people on differing sides of the UK/EU referendum here in England. None of them I consider to be stupid or racist. But they are blaming Europe for all of Britain's woes instead of looking inward. The EU is a net benefit, but just last week we've had otherwise intelligent people scaremongering about Turkey joining the EU and hundreds of thousands of Turkish people swarming the border. It's a crass and absurd lie, and it's downright manipulative. I never claimed any kind of "psychological pathology" either. That would imply mental illness which is not correct at all. I mentioned a very common human trait which we're almost all guilty of at some point or other. You seem to enjoy putting a lot of words in my mouth that I never said. I think I'll end this here rather than waste my time attempting debate.
- jules 10y ago