5 ms·

You are right that lot of those people don't benefit from globalization and struggle with finding jobs etc. but: > They are not racist or facists. They are jus

You are right that lot of those people don't benefit from globalization and struggle with finding jobs etc. but: > They are not racist or facists. They are just afraid of the change that is hitting them and have no other way of expressing this fear. In Europe and in the US. No, they are racist. Even if you can explain their racism, it's still racism. There is always some explanation but it's still a move to the right. If you look at the language the AfD is using for example, you realize it's intentionally close to pre-WWII Nazi propaganda.

ThomPete 10y ago
That was true for the original founding of the parties but thats not why they keep growing. This is important to understand.
- discordianfish 10y ago
  I'm convinced that a big reason for them to keep growing is that it gets more and more acceptable to provide simplistic and right wing answers to the problems.
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    You are wrong then and will continue to miss the most important thing. People are loosing their belief in the future and their ability for prospering and so they are simply looking for someone who take their concerns serious. The left used to do that. Or if you insist on you own interpretation. You should instead ask yourself why more and more people buy into that view. The answer to neither of them are racism or fascism.
    - Scarblac 10y ago
      But the right doesn't take their concerns seriously, they offer no solutions whatsoever. They just shout outrageous, unrealistic oneliners.
      - ThomPete 10y ago
        They offer the solution of stopping for the influx of immigration. One of the key issues many in europe see. Just ask the unions. They are increasingly fighting against the cheaper labour in ex. construction undermining the salaries of their own national members. The left have no response to that what so ever.
        Scarblac 10y ago
        But immigration _isn't_ a key issue, it's not the cause of these peoples' troubles. They get told that, so that they can be provided with simplistic solutions. Globalization is the problem, technology making jobs obsolete is the problem, natural limits to growth of world economy are the problem, climate change and energy crunch will be huge problems for them soon. But those are hard to explain and much harder to solve, so the idiots win. Edit: Sorry, I read "refugees" when I saw you mention immigrants. Cheap labour from inside the EU is a real problem.
        ThomPete 10y ago
        The right has one simply solution which actually in the short run is the most rational one. Stop immigration. I am sure calling someone an idiot just because they represent another view than you is under your own normal level too. You aren't an idiot just because you are skeptic towards immigration. National Conservative is a totally fair position to take.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        The right exploits their concerns, which is easier to be perceived as addressing them when no one else is even acknowledging them.
        ThomPete 10y ago
        Very well put. The left ignores them completely. So they are grasping for every straw they can.
- Scarblac 10y ago
  The parties are right wing and racist, they also gain votes from people who just want to be heard and think all other parties are too much like the current ones. The anti-establishment sentiment is so bad that it also rewards whoever shouts the most outrageous things; if you call them out on it, you're obviously part of the establishment. They are racist, and are being rewarded for racist statements (e.g. Wilders getting a crowd to shout "Fewer Moroccans! Fewer Moroccans!", or Trump's Mexican wall or keeping muslims out of the US).
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    You have nothing to back that claim up. You are grouping a bunch of very different people into one group the very thing liberals are normally quick to react to when it's done by the right. You are part of the very reason there even is a right wing. But each to their own of course.
UVB-76 10y ago
There is racism in some quarters, but there are also plenty of people who are just opposed to the free movement of people on selfish grounds.

ThomPete 10y ago

That was true for the original founding of the parties but thats not why they keep growing. This is important to understand.

discordianfish 10y ago
I'm convinced that a big reason for them to keep growing is that it gets more and more acceptable to provide simplistic and right wing answers to the problems.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  You are wrong then and will continue to miss the most important thing. People are loosing their belief in the future and their ability for prospering and so they are simply looking for someone who take their concerns serious. The left used to do that. Or if you insist on you own interpretation. You should instead ask yourself why more and more people buy into that view. The answer to neither of them are racism or fascism.
  - Scarblac 10y ago
    But the right doesn't take their concerns seriously, they offer no solutions whatsoever. They just shout outrageous, unrealistic oneliners.
    - ThomPete 10y ago
      They offer the solution of stopping for the influx of immigration. One of the key issues many in europe see. Just ask the unions. They are increasingly fighting against the cheaper labour in ex. construction undermining the salaries of their own national members. The left have no response to that what so ever.
      - Scarblac 10y ago
        But immigration _isn't_ a key issue, it's not the cause of these peoples' troubles. They get told that, so that they can be provided with simplistic solutions. Globalization is the problem, technology making jobs obsolete is the problem, natural limits to growth of world economy are the problem, climate change and energy crunch will be huge problems for them soon. But those are hard to explain and much harder to solve, so the idiots win. Edit: Sorry, I read "refugees" when I saw you mention immigrants. Cheap labour from inside the EU is a real problem.
        ThomPete 10y ago
        The right has one simply solution which actually in the short run is the most rational one. Stop immigration. I am sure calling someone an idiot just because they represent another view than you is under your own normal level too. You aren't an idiot just because you are skeptic towards immigration. National Conservative is a totally fair position to take.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      The right exploits their concerns, which is easier to be perceived as addressing them when no one else is even acknowledging them.
      - ThomPete 10y ago
        Very well put. The left ignores them completely. So they are grasping for every straw they can.
Scarblac 10y ago
The parties are right wing and racist, they also gain votes from people who just want to be heard and think all other parties are too much like the current ones. The anti-establishment sentiment is so bad that it also rewards whoever shouts the most outrageous things; if you call them out on it, you're obviously part of the establishment. They are racist, and are being rewarded for racist statements (e.g. Wilders getting a crowd to shout "Fewer Moroccans! Fewer Moroccans!", or Trump's Mexican wall or keeping muslims out of the US).
- ThomPete 10y ago
  You have nothing to back that claim up. You are grouping a bunch of very different people into one group the very thing liberals are normally quick to react to when it's done by the right. You are part of the very reason there even is a right wing. But each to their own of course.

UVB-76 10y ago

There is racism in some quarters, but there are also plenty of people who are just opposed to the free movement of people on selfish grounds.