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This is kinda something that meditation is supposed to do. It brings problems you have to the fore so that you can see them clearly and fix them. This is someth

by mveety 10y ago

This is kinda something that meditation is supposed to do. It brings problems you have to the fore so that you can see them clearly and fix them. This is something entirely ignored by the new-agey "im super spiritual" types. Meditation isn't something to make you blissful or happy or whatever they're saying it does these days. It's just a tool to see yourself just like a microscope is a tool that allows you to see what's already there.

baldfat 10y ago
Depression is a medical diagnosis because it has physical make up that causes people to be depressed. I work and live with people who think depression is a "spiritual" or personal lifestyle problem. I think they are wrong. I lost a sister to cancer when she was 15, my brother to probably suicide when he was 19 and my son died of cancer at 12. I seriously can say I never had a day of depression. I have had a broken heart missing them and feeling the pain. I will cry for them (I did for my son on Sunday while I was unloading groceries (Go figure)) But I have never lost the taste of food nor anything else. I have sorrow but their is a root cause for that. Depression is sorrow with no real root cause (to me). So I usually come out to defend people who are depressed since I feel like I should be the kind of depression but have never experienced it due to the luck of my genetics.
- ideonexus 10y ago
  This is an incredibly insightful post on depression. As a father of two young children, I am incredibly sorry for your loss and reading about it really struck me... Strangely enough, this thread being about mindfulness meditation, made me halt my instinctive reaction to keep scrolling and confront the emotions I was feeling reading it. My instinct was to keep scrolling and distract my mind with other things, but instead I realize your post confronts me with the terrifying possibility of losing my own children. I think you really illustrate the difference between depression and sadness. Depression I imagine is like experiencing dulled senses, a vapid gray world of numbness. While sorrow and sadness are incredibly vivid emotions that can overpower us, like when they struck you so suddenly unloading groceries. I'm so sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing such personal information.
- goda90 10y ago
  But, there are lifestyle and "spiritual" things that can be done to help treat depression. Things like exercise, diet, social interaction, exposure to nature and sunlight, and other environmental factors can have an effect on the physical make up of the brain. Now none are cure alls and a lack of any one of them isn't necessarily to blame either, but there is merit to some of these "spiritual" practices that get more of those things in one's life.
  - baldfat 10y ago
    > But, there are lifestyle and "spiritual" things that can be done to help treat depression (I am the OP on going through loss and sadness and not being depressed.) Yes 100% correct. Just like if you have heart disease or a bad back their are non-medical activities that will help those medical condition. My statement is that their is a medical piece that people discount and/or actually dismiss. A person can't just "fix themselves" and having the medical piece help them with treatment with counseling is a big help. Depression isn't that your sad. Depression Definition: Clinical depression is a mood disorder in which feelings of sadness, loss, anger, or frustration interfere with everyday life for weeks or more. Symptoms of depression include: Low mood or irritable mood most of the time Trouble sleeping or sleeping too much A big change in appetite, often with weight gain or loss Tiredness and lack of energy Feelings of worthlessness, self-hate, and guilt Difficulty concentrating Slow or fast movements Lack of activity and avoiding usual activities Feeling hopeless or helpless Repeated thoughts of death or suicide Lack of pleasure in activities you usually enjoy, including sex https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003213.htm https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003213.htm
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Exercise is important, and it might help prevent depression, but the good quality evidence we have says that exercise is at best a weak treatment for depression for some people, and not at all a treatment for the rest.
- CuriouslyC 10y ago
  I have dealt with huge, soul crushing depression. In my case it was absolutely a spiritual/lifestyle problem. Specifically, my core values involve personal growth, and contribution to society, and I felt incapable of either. I had a good job, a girlfriend, good relationships with family, etc, but none of that mattered. The rational I had was that my in the big scheme of things I didn't matter - I could just as well not exist, and outside of a couple of people absolutely nothing would change. I feel like the massively connected nature of modern society is directly responsible for flourishing depression. Odds are, you are redundant; if most people disappeared suddenly, someone else could probably pick up the pieces in fairly short order. Additionally, being hyper-connected means that whatever you're good at, it is probably easy to find examples of people who are much better at it than you, which can be be somewhat marginalizing. Not feeling necessary or exceptional in any way is a pretty sure fire recipe for angst. The nasty thing about depression is that it is a self-reinforcing cycle. When you start to get depressed, your ability to take measures to address the root cause of the depression is impacted. The result is a downward spiral that results in self obviation, through suicide, self destructive behavior or substance abuse.
mvanvoorden 10y ago
Exactly, I've been to a Vipassana meditation retreat, and the whole point is to eradicate suffering by eliminating feelings of craving and aversion. To see things as they are, without passing judgment. This creates a clear mind, free from worries and dwelling, and a more stable personality. From this comes happiness, as this is our natural state of mind. People tend to mix up pleasure and happiness and think meditation provides the first. Meditation, just like a psychedelic experience, can show you where you stand in life, and this can be scary. One can find out that they've been doing things wrong all their life, or realize that they are on a destructive path. The changes required might affect their spouse, children, friends or their job, creating a seemingly impossible dilemma, to go on and keep suffering, or to change and hurt others.
- wefarrell 10y ago
  Meditation can provide pleasure which is why it can be harmful without proper guidance. My last retreat I came to a state of bhanga very early. It felt wonderful but it fucked with my equanimity when it stopped I felt depressed. Guidance helped me get through it. The key difference between meditation and psychedelics is regularity. Psychedelics are more like antibiotics in that they can be used in short bursts to shock the system but meditation should be used continually like a vitamin.
saiya-jin 10y ago
>> This is kinda something that meditation is supposed to do. Incorrect. Meditation helps to find balance, meaning, sort out things, but in a same way as it won't cure cancer, it won't cure clinical depression, or broken arm.
suneilp 10y ago
Whole heartedly agree. In my experience, meditation is a tool, not a cure-all. When I started getting into meditation, yoga, etc. I did a couple of legit non-new agey satsangs which is something like a chanting meditation type thing. Those were very deep, moving experiences, yet I felt extremely depressed after each one. Some things can be too fast and unlock too much at once. This is where regular, consistent, meditation helps quell the unrest and let you tackle things at a sane pace. I had to work through those bouts of heavy depression, but now I can do very spiritual events and benefit from them.
- magicbeanss 10y ago
  This happened to me as well. I went to a two-hour gong-bath/satsang, and was nearly suicidal by the end. To be honest I'm relieved that this isn't unique to me.
eternalban 10y ago
In Sufism (among other paths) the aspirants are explicitly and repeatedly warned regarding the "dangers" of unsupervised development. > it's just a tool Tools are a means. > to see what's already there That is also a means. (Unless one is merely curious.) > blissful or happy To arrive at-rest/contenment with Reality. At which point the distinction between "happy"/"unhappy" is understood to be nil.

by mveety 10y ago

baldfat 10y ago

Depression is a medical diagnosis because it has physical make up that causes people to be depressed. I work and live with people who think depression is a "spiritual" or personal lifestyle problem. I think they are wrong. I lost a sister to cancer when she was 15, my brother to probably suicide when he was 19 and my son died of cancer at 12. I seriously can say I never had a day of depression. I have had a broken heart missing them and feeling the pain. I will cry for them (I did for my son on Sunday while I was unloading groceries (Go figure)) But I have never lost the taste of food nor anything else. I have sorrow but their is a root cause for that. Depression is sorrow with no real root cause (to me). So I usually come out to defend people who are depressed since I feel like I should be the kind of depression but have never experienced it due to the luck of my genetics.

ideonexus 10y ago
This is an incredibly insightful post on depression. As a father of two young children, I am incredibly sorry for your loss and reading about it really struck me... Strangely enough, this thread being about mindfulness meditation, made me halt my instinctive reaction to keep scrolling and confront the emotions I was feeling reading it. My instinct was to keep scrolling and distract my mind with other things, but instead I realize your post confronts me with the terrifying possibility of losing my own children. I think you really illustrate the difference between depression and sadness. Depression I imagine is like experiencing dulled senses, a vapid gray world of numbness. While sorrow and sadness are incredibly vivid emotions that can overpower us, like when they struck you so suddenly unloading groceries. I'm so sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing such personal information.
goda90 10y ago
But, there are lifestyle and "spiritual" things that can be done to help treat depression. Things like exercise, diet, social interaction, exposure to nature and sunlight, and other environmental factors can have an effect on the physical make up of the brain. Now none are cure alls and a lack of any one of them isn't necessarily to blame either, but there is merit to some of these "spiritual" practices that get more of those things in one's life.
- baldfat 10y ago
  > But, there are lifestyle and "spiritual" things that can be done to help treat depression (I am the OP on going through loss and sadness and not being depressed.) Yes 100% correct. Just like if you have heart disease or a bad back their are non-medical activities that will help those medical condition. My statement is that their is a medical piece that people discount and/or actually dismiss. A person can't just "fix themselves" and having the medical piece help them with treatment with counseling is a big help. Depression isn't that your sad. Depression Definition: Clinical depression is a mood disorder in which feelings of sadness, loss, anger, or frustration interfere with everyday life for weeks or more. Symptoms of depression include: Low mood or irritable mood most of the time Trouble sleeping or sleeping too much A big change in appetite, often with weight gain or loss Tiredness and lack of energy Feelings of worthlessness, self-hate, and guilt Difficulty concentrating Slow or fast movements Lack of activity and avoiding usual activities Feeling hopeless or helpless Repeated thoughts of death or suicide Lack of pleasure in activities you usually enjoy, including sex https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003213.htm https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003213.htm
- DanBC 10y ago
  Exercise is important, and it might help prevent depression, but the good quality evidence we have says that exercise is at best a weak treatment for depression for some people, and not at all a treatment for the rest.
CuriouslyC 10y ago
I have dealt with huge, soul crushing depression. In my case it was absolutely a spiritual/lifestyle problem. Specifically, my core values involve personal growth, and contribution to society, and I felt incapable of either. I had a good job, a girlfriend, good relationships with family, etc, but none of that mattered. The rational I had was that my in the big scheme of things I didn't matter - I could just as well not exist, and outside of a couple of people absolutely nothing would change. I feel like the massively connected nature of modern society is directly responsible for flourishing depression. Odds are, you are redundant; if most people disappeared suddenly, someone else could probably pick up the pieces in fairly short order. Additionally, being hyper-connected means that whatever you're good at, it is probably easy to find examples of people who are much better at it than you, which can be be somewhat marginalizing. Not feeling necessary or exceptional in any way is a pretty sure fire recipe for angst. The nasty thing about depression is that it is a self-reinforcing cycle. When you start to get depressed, your ability to take measures to address the root cause of the depression is impacted. The result is a downward spiral that results in self obviation, through suicide, self destructive behavior or substance abuse.

mvanvoorden 10y ago

Exactly, I've been to a Vipassana meditation retreat, and the whole point is to eradicate suffering by eliminating feelings of craving and aversion. To see things as they are, without passing judgment. This creates a clear mind, free from worries and dwelling, and a more stable personality. From this comes happiness, as this is our natural state of mind. People tend to mix up pleasure and happiness and think meditation provides the first. Meditation, just like a psychedelic experience, can show you where you stand in life, and this can be scary. One can find out that they've been doing things wrong all their life, or realize that they are on a destructive path. The changes required might affect their spouse, children, friends or their job, creating a seemingly impossible dilemma, to go on and keep suffering, or to change and hurt others.

wefarrell 10y ago
Meditation can provide pleasure which is why it can be harmful without proper guidance. My last retreat I came to a state of bhanga very early. It felt wonderful but it fucked with my equanimity when it stopped I felt depressed. Guidance helped me get through it. The key difference between meditation and psychedelics is regularity. Psychedelics are more like antibiotics in that they can be used in short bursts to shock the system but meditation should be used continually like a vitamin.

saiya-jin 10y ago

>> This is kinda something that meditation is supposed to do. Incorrect. Meditation helps to find balance, meaning, sort out things, but in a same way as it won't cure cancer, it won't cure clinical depression, or broken arm.

suneilp 10y ago

Whole heartedly agree. In my experience, meditation is a tool, not a cure-all. When I started getting into meditation, yoga, etc. I did a couple of legit non-new agey satsangs which is something like a chanting meditation type thing. Those were very deep, moving experiences, yet I felt extremely depressed after each one. Some things can be too fast and unlock too much at once. This is where regular, consistent, meditation helps quell the unrest and let you tackle things at a sane pace. I had to work through those bouts of heavy depression, but now I can do very spiritual events and benefit from them.

magicbeanss 10y ago
This happened to me as well. I went to a two-hour gong-bath/satsang, and was nearly suicidal by the end. To be honest I'm relieved that this isn't unique to me.

eternalban 10y ago

In Sufism (among other paths) the aspirants are explicitly and repeatedly warned regarding the "dangers" of unsupervised development. > it's just a tool Tools are a means. > to see what's already there That is also a means. (Unless one is merely curious.) > blissful or happy To arrive at-rest/contenment with Reality. At which point the distinction between "happy"/"unhappy" is understood to be nil.