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Kind of odd to even bring ethics up when discussing how websites make money. It doesn't matter at all. Ethics is normally used to discuss other people getting

by dave2000 10y ago

Kind of odd to even bring ethics up when discussing how websites make money. It doesn't matter at all. Ethics is normally used to discuss other people getting harmed by actions, but when all that harm can be removed simply by closing the browser and doing something else it's barely worth talking about. Is it ethical for a shop to advertise its products in the shop windows when the people running the shop know that there are higher quality products available in a competitors store? Who gives a shit?

nitrogen 10y ago
Kind of odd to even bring ethics up when discussing how websites make money. It doesn't matter at all. This is why we can't have nice things. Because people adopt a FYGM attitude. Because they piss in the pool we all have to swim in. ...all that harm can be removed simply by... ...quitting smoking? Throwing away the prescription pain meds? Giving up junk food? How about not robbing people of their valuable time and money? How about moving past negative-sum business models where the distributed costs far outweigh the concentrated gains?
- runamok 10y ago
  > How about moving past ... where the distributed costs far outweigh the concentrated gains? That pretty much describes living in the US and even Europe to a degree compared to most of the world. How deep should morality go? Almost all of us in the US consume an order of magnitude more than most of the world for instance.
babuskov 10y ago
If I'm actively searching for some information I need, I cannot "simply close the browser and do something else". Search results are polluted with junk and time it takes to find useful information has increased a lot. Finding in-depth information is getting harder and harder because of flood of low quality pages that only hit the keywords and skim the topic on the surface.
TeMPOraL 10y ago
> Who gives a shit? I do. That's probably why I won't be running an effective business any time soon. Being nice and not fucking people over doesn't get you far in highly competitive markets. I strongly second what 'nitrogen wrote[0]. This is very much about ethics. > Is it ethical for a shop to advertise its products in the shop windows when the people running the shop know that there are higher quality products available in a competitors store? In my opinion, no. Basically, if you know your product is shit, you are morally obliged to make it better or find something else to sell; lying to people to make them buy your stuff instead of something objectively better is fucking them over for your own gain. Think about it the next time you find yourself on the receiving end of such businessmen. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11759628 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11759628
- protomikron 10y ago
  I completely agree and hope that more and more other engineers just say NO to aggressive advertising bullshit. It is not like one has no choice.
  - dawnerd 10y ago
    That's partially why I left Demand.
- kidmenot 10y ago
  > I do. That's probably why I won't be running an effective business any time soon. Being nice and not fucking people over doesn't get you far in highly competitive markets. > lying to people to make them buy your stuff instead of something objectively better is fucking them over for your own gain Thanks, this needed to be said. I'm in the same position. I will probably never be able to run a business either because I hold these same views.
- tetromino_ 10y ago
  That argument would lead you to the conclusion that if your peers are objectively better than you, then it's immoral for you to seek employment; you must improve yourself or choose a different industry. So do you think you are among the world's best in your area of expertise, or are you voluntarily unemployed? ;)

nitrogen 10y ago

Kind of odd to even bring ethics up when discussing how websites make money. It doesn't matter at all. This is why we can't have nice things. Because people adopt a FYGM attitude. Because they piss in the pool we all have to swim in. ...all that harm can be removed simply by... ...quitting smoking? Throwing away the prescription pain meds? Giving up junk food? How about not robbing people of their valuable time and money? How about moving past negative-sum business models where the distributed costs far outweigh the concentrated gains?

runamok 10y ago
> How about moving past ... where the distributed costs far outweigh the concentrated gains? That pretty much describes living in the US and even Europe to a degree compared to most of the world. How deep should morality go? Almost all of us in the US consume an order of magnitude more than most of the world for instance.

babuskov 10y ago

If I'm actively searching for some information I need, I cannot "simply close the browser and do something else". Search results are polluted with junk and time it takes to find useful information has increased a lot. Finding in-depth information is getting harder and harder because of flood of low quality pages that only hit the keywords and skim the topic on the surface.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

> Who gives a shit? I do. That's probably why I won't be running an effective business any time soon. Being nice and not fucking people over doesn't get you far in highly competitive markets. I strongly second what 'nitrogen wrote[0]. This is very much about ethics. > Is it ethical for a shop to advertise its products in the shop windows when the people running the shop know that there are higher quality products available in a competitors store? In my opinion, no. Basically, if you know your product is shit, you are morally obliged to make it better or find something else to sell; lying to people to make them buy your stuff instead of something objectively better is fucking them over for your own gain. Think about it the next time you find yourself on the receiving end of such businessmen. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11759628 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11759628

protomikron 10y ago
I completely agree and hope that more and more other engineers just say NO to aggressive advertising bullshit. It is not like one has no choice.
- dawnerd 10y ago
  That's partially why I left Demand.
kidmenot 10y ago
> I do. That's probably why I won't be running an effective business any time soon. Being nice and not fucking people over doesn't get you far in highly competitive markets. > lying to people to make them buy your stuff instead of something objectively better is fucking them over for your own gain Thanks, this needed to be said. I'm in the same position. I will probably never be able to run a business either because I hold these same views.
tetromino_ 10y ago
That argument would lead you to the conclusion that if your peers are objectively better than you, then it's immoral for you to seek employment; you must improve yourself or choose a different industry. So do you think you are among the world's best in your area of expertise, or are you voluntarily unemployed? ;)