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Let me explain. You are looking from the outside at a community which has a lot of issues around languages, tooling and frameworks for complex historical and t

Let me explain. You are looking from the outside at a community which has a lot of issues around languages, tooling and frameworks for complex historical and technical reasons. E.g. Things that developed over long periods of time, like desktop apps, had to be rebuilt in the browser in a decade. Ask any desktop application developer how fun they think client side web dev is in comparison. And you are then assuming that the difficulties of this community are because they are immature and not as wise as you. Hope that clarifies things.

EpicEng 10y ago
>Hope that clarifies things No, not really, and I don't think I assumed that at all. I think it is objectively true that debating the merits of e.g. Python v Ruby for years on end is an utter waste of time. This is not engineering, it's vanity. I can get behind the occasional spirited debate. Of course there are pros and cons to every tool, and we should know what those are, but at the end of the day that's all they are; tools. They're middle men in the problem solving process, not the end result. BTW, your current web protocols and frameworks are going to change again, just like your decrepit old desktop technologies did. Be prepared to denounce your current toolset and fervently embrace another in the near future.
- raarts 10y ago
  I think it 's because of the number of young/unexperienced developers in the field. Those are the ones spending (wasting) a lot of time debating the relative merits of frameworks, languages, editors. More experienced people don't care as much.
  - jonathankoren 10y ago
    >I think it 's because of the number of young/unexperienced developers in the field. I honestly think this is it. Webdev has an inordinate amount of "let's rewrite it... again!" But the thing that really cinched the webdev community isn't ready for primetime was the whole left-pad debacle. Auto updating of dependencies is bush league bullshit, and the whole rotten edifice came predictably crashing down because of it.
- vidarh 10y ago
  They are tools, but some tools are more enjoyable for people to work with than others (and we don't agree on which ones), and when you're spending a substantial percentage of your life working with those tools, then working with something you enjoy matters. For some, the tools they work with doesn't matter or doesn't affect their enjoyment. Great for them. But for me it does. Working in a language or with a framework I don't like is a constant stress factor because I keep hitting things that annoy me. Personally, I don't touch Python projects if I can avoid it, for example, because I don't enjoy working with Python. It's got nothing to do with objective issues with it, and everything to do with subjective issues that affect my enjoyment. If I work with something I enjoy, I will be more motivated and put in a better effort, and will overall be happier. > Be prepared to denounce your current toolset and fervently embrace another in the near future. Awesome. While I like my current stack, I've changed it many times during my career because I found something I liked better. And sometimes I've had to put my preferences aside and pick something for more pragmatic reasons, and that's ok, but I most of the time have the luxury of being able to turn down work if I don't thnk I'll enjoy it.

EpicEng 10y ago

>Hope that clarifies things No, not really, and I don't think I assumed that at all. I think it is objectively true that debating the merits of e.g. Python v Ruby for years on end is an utter waste of time. This is not engineering, it's vanity. I can get behind the occasional spirited debate. Of course there are pros and cons to every tool, and we should know what those are, but at the end of the day that's all they are; tools. They're middle men in the problem solving process, not the end result. BTW, your current web protocols and frameworks are going to change again, just like your decrepit old desktop technologies did. Be prepared to denounce your current toolset and fervently embrace another in the near future.

raarts 10y ago
I think it 's because of the number of young/unexperienced developers in the field. Those are the ones spending (wasting) a lot of time debating the relative merits of frameworks, languages, editors. More experienced people don't care as much.
- jonathankoren 10y ago
  >I think it 's because of the number of young/unexperienced developers in the field. I honestly think this is it. Webdev has an inordinate amount of "let's rewrite it... again!" But the thing that really cinched the webdev community isn't ready for primetime was the whole left-pad debacle. Auto updating of dependencies is bush league bullshit, and the whole rotten edifice came predictably crashing down because of it.
vidarh 10y ago
They are tools, but some tools are more enjoyable for people to work with than others (and we don't agree on which ones), and when you're spending a substantial percentage of your life working with those tools, then working with something you enjoy matters. For some, the tools they work with doesn't matter or doesn't affect their enjoyment. Great for them. But for me it does. Working in a language or with a framework I don't like is a constant stress factor because I keep hitting things that annoy me. Personally, I don't touch Python projects if I can avoid it, for example, because I don't enjoy working with Python. It's got nothing to do with objective issues with it, and everything to do with subjective issues that affect my enjoyment. If I work with something I enjoy, I will be more motivated and put in a better effort, and will overall be happier. > Be prepared to denounce your current toolset and fervently embrace another in the near future. Awesome. While I like my current stack, I've changed it many times during my career because I found something I liked better. And sometimes I've had to put my preferences aside and pick something for more pragmatic reasons, and that's ok, but I most of the time have the luxury of being able to turn down work if I don't thnk I'll enjoy it.