12 ms·

When I'm reviewing an application, the most important thing to me is the cover letter and the specificity in it. If you don't state why you want to work at the

by jc4p 10y ago

When I'm reviewing an application, the most important thing to me is the cover letter and the specificity in it. If you don't state why you want to work at the company, how you think you could grow being a part of it, or even mention the company by name explicitly, I ignore the rest of the application. Spray and fire might work if you don't actually care about your job, but this really seems like spam to me.

parennoob 10y ago
Do you also tell your recruiters to look at people individually and customize their introduction emails to the person in question? Most emails I receive from recruiters are extremely templated, and hardly ever mention specific projects or jobs that I might have done. I would feel perfectly comfortable using spray-and-forget with these kinds of companies.
- jc4p 10y ago
  What you describe is one of my biggest annoyances too, and very common with contingency recruiters. Luckily, our internal recruiters are fantastic and a couple have taught themselves how to program to be able to carry on introductory talks better! Stack Overflow Jobs (our job board) also explicitly disallows this sort of behavior. If a first-touch e-mail doesn't list why the person in particular is being contacted, again, I think it's spam.
jmopr 10y ago
@jc4p I put in the cover letter for every job my bot applies for + I send an additional page customized to the job poster, here is an example: http://job-diana.herokuapp.com/users/jobs/07c5807d0d927dcd0980f86024e5208b http://job-diana.herokuapp.com/users/jobs/07c5807d0d927dcd09... And here is the automated cover letter: Dear Hiring Manager, Hello, my name is Juan Ortiz. Nice to meet you! I actually wrote a bot to automatically apply to your job because it looks like it's a #{fit} fit for my skills - my matching algorithm actually said there is #{percent}% chance you'd be interested in interviewing me. You can check out the match profile I created for your job posting here: #{url_for_analysis} I'd really love the opportunity to interview at #{company_name} for the open #{job_title} position. Thanks again. You can reach me at #{phone_number} if you'd like to chat. P.S. if you're interested in how my bot is actually handling applications for me, you can check out the source code that applied on github: #{link_to_github}.
- jc4p 10y ago
  The additional page thing makes me feel better. I think it's a really cool project, and sharing the percent match with the person is genius. The cover letter in the example isn't really a cover letter, though. A bare-minimum cover letter would to me include _reasons_, e.g. "I've been teaching myself Rust in my off-time and migrating over from a mobile engineer to working in Rust full time really excites me."
- okc 10y ago
  Excellent. I'd love to see a not that handles recruitment too.
- justinlardinois 10y ago
  > my matching algorithm actually said there is #{percent}% chance you'd be interested in interviewing me Of course anyone reading that would be skeptical, but I wonder if a high number would have a subconscious effect on them regardless.
  - notahacker 10y ago
    I'd have thought it was the opposite: any hiring manager is going to totally disregard the percentage (and the automated application) except for the small fraction of hiring managers that think "writing a job application bot... that's exactly the sort of outside-the-box approach we're looking for round here". For that fraction, seeing a low percentage match might dent that enthusiasm.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 10y ago
      I'll go out on a limb and say that 99% of technical hiring managers seeing that the application was written by a bot will want to interview that guy today. Said it so many times before, it's shit like this that puts you way ahead of the crowd when it comes to interviewing.
      - justinlardinois 10y ago
zippergz 10y ago
Interesting. I've interviewed hundreds of people, and hired dozens of software engineers and similar positions, and I can't remember a single time a cover letter has made a difference. I rarely even read them. That's not to say I endorse this spray and pray approach - just that the cover letter isn't really the issue for me.
- thebouv 10y ago
  Same here. I pay little to no attention to the cover letter, nor do I ever write them myself. His spray and pray method is no worse than the dozens of mismatched, unqualified resumes that get submitted to any job I post anyway.
- bjelkeman-again 10y ago
  I am the opposite. I have interviewed and subsequently hired very good people primarily on the first contact, which is often a cover letter. The CV also mattered, but in the end, both are just a vehicle to get an interview.
  - geoelectric 10y ago
    To be clear, a cold-application cover letter? First contact, yeah, but I've mostly seen it with handshakes, networking, or the type of letter that also namedrops an internal referral.
    - bjelkeman-again 10y ago
      Not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I primarily tried to say that I think the cover letter matters to me. One was so compelling I jumped at the opportunity to talk to the person. Now a very appreciated colleague of mine.
- csydas 10y ago
  I think it's largely going to depend on on the job, as a cover letter tends to not be a great place to give context as to technical aptitude or skills as much as it will to demeanor and presentability. The former is much more important for engineering positions, the latter for front-end folk that deal more directly with users. That is not to say that there is never any cross-over of the skill sets between the two, but you really don't want to have the "Nick Burns, your company's computer guy" dealing with social stuff if you can avoid it.
jenscow 10y ago
Well, I'm glad someone is taking notice in my cover letters.
rajacombinator 10y ago
The cost/benefit is simply not there for customizing a cover letter for every job you cold apply to.
- jc4p 10y ago
  I really don't agree with this. I customize my cover letter and resume for every job I apply to.
  - johnward 10y ago
    I've applied for around 60 jobs over the last year. I'm not sure how much time was wasted crafting cover letters that actually explain why I would be a good fit. They are not worth the effort. Spray and pray seems like a better approach time wise. You never know what these recruiters actually want, or if they even know, so by the numbers you might get lucky if you just apply for everything. Infact I was just thinking about automating the process yesterday, which is why this post sparked my interest.
    - mikekchar 10y ago
      There seems something not quite right here. I'm trying hard to phrase this in a constructive way, so if I say something that seems unkind, please forgive me. 60 applications in a year seems like a strange rate. That's 12 a month. If you are currently employed and looking casually, then I suppose it's reasonable, but it's really, really low if you are unemployed. Also, the time frame seems really strange. After 12 applications in a month, I would expect at least 1 interview. If you are doing this consistently then a reasonable target would be to expect to be hired in about 3 months. So with a year of this, if you haven't been hired, then I think something has gone wrong. I wonder if you are experiencing problems with having a high rate of rejection, which might actually be made worse with automation. I've given this advice before, but I'll try to keep it short this time. Job searching is a full time job. Even if you are currently employed, it really makes sense to prioritise some of your personal time to work on it as if it were a part time job. Your CV is really important. If you are not getting interviews with 10-20% of your applications, then I would focus on it first. Go to the library and read a few books on writing a resume. It helped me dramatically when I was first starting out. Take your CV to friends in the industry and ask for feedback. Also, if you are lucky enough to be in a big vibrant city, you should prioritise going to meet ups as often as you can. Print personal business cards with a link to your online CV. Get stuck in and talk to people. It doesn't come easily to some, but you get better with practice. Get in the habit of giving your card to people. If they mention that they are hiring, make sure to get their contact details and follow up with an email later. These days I think it is almost imperative if you are a programmer to have a portfolio. Many people put a link to their github account. Often when I look I find a collection of half-hearted Rails projects 90% of which is generated code. A portfolio should be organized. It should highlight your skills. Even a single project can be your portfolio. The automation project here would make a fantastic portfolio project for a junior-intermediate programmer. Personally, I would interview them on the strength of the initiative alone. Build at least one interesting and useful project. Or build many katas and explain why you think they are good katas. Or write lots of blog posts. Organize them into a website and make it easy to find the bits that show your good points. In the past, my portfolio has outright given me jobs. Getting your CV in order and getting a good portfolio together is a huge job. It can take a month of full time work to get something worth presenting. But it's worth it. After you get it started, you should try to spend some time on your portfolio every week to keep it fresh and interesting. That way it gets stronger over time. Finally interviews. These are skills. I will give you a good tip. Nobody interviews someone that they think they aren't going to hire. It makes no sense. So in a way, the job is already yours by the time you get to the interview. Your job is to confirm their suspicion that you have the skills for the job and that you will fit well into their team. Honestly, a good rate is about 1-2 offers per 3 interviews. That seems very high, but like I said, the job is already yours if you get to the interview. If you are having trouble getting the offers, again visit your library and read books on job interviews (there are lots of them). Go and practice with friends in the industry and get feedback. One small tip I'll leave you with is that it is just as important that you interview the company than the company interviews you. Usually I find that with 3 interviews, in 1 we both realize that it is not a good fit. In another only one of us realizes it is not a good fit. In the last, there is an offer that is accepted. Anyway, I failed to keep this short (again). I really should write a blog post (or several) about it. I hope it helps you (or someone else who stumbles across it). After saying all that, a cover letter is quite important. But I hope you can see that it is the icing on the cake. Compared to everything else you need to do, it takes almost no time.
dikdik 10y ago
A lot of people find the "grovel and tell me how much you love me" environment to not be so great.
- jc4p 10y ago
  This is a pessimistic view of what I'm recommending! I don't want fake praise, I want reasons why they're a good fit for my company and why my company is a good fit for them. Even if it's a company they've never heard of, a "I think it'd be really cool to work on a product in the {$FIELD} space" catches the eye on a cover letter.
- untog 10y ago
  Oh, come on. If you're not interested in a job you should be applying for a different one (in today's developer job market, that is). Asking an applicant to express why they are interested is not unreasonable.
  - developer2 10y ago
    The cynical view is adopted by some after having been employed by multiple companies, and discovering that they're mostly interchangeable. The majority of employers are not unique, are not offering anything special compared to other businesses, and should not be pretending otherwise by making candidates grovel like peasants trying to get a job working for the royal family. Most positions do not require a "match made in heaven", but many interviews are conducted in such a way that candidates have to jump through hoops to prove just how compatible they are. I have yet to participate in an interview that focused on the quality of the employer-employee match, where I have not spewed nonsense in order to "pass the test". I remember an article that laid out how this can be viewed as a positive process; that it tests whether the candidate is capable of handling awkward situations diplomatically (or something to that effect). That we as a society consider being completely fake to be a good thing blows my mind. --- Question: Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Given Answer: I'd like to work up from my existing position as a senior developer to a team lead position, and possibly another step up or two from there. Real Answer: I love the work I do as a developer, and do not wish to climb the corporate ladder. I figure this might change as I get older, but for now I am happy with what I do. --- Question: Why would you be a better fit compared to another candidate? Given Answer: The job listing mentioned X, and I have a lot of experience with X. The listing also mentioned Y, and I am very interested in gaining more experience with Y. I like element Z of your culture. Real Answer: I match most or all of the requirements you mentioned in your listing. Every candidate you interviewed probably does. Just hire someone and see whether it works out for you. --- Question: Why did you leave your last job? Given Answer: No opportunity to advance, or accomplished the tasks the employer had primarily hired me for. Real Answer: Boss was incompetent, HR introduced unacceptable policies, or management put a stop to salary increases / bonuses that have been around for years.
dkopi 10y ago
Fairly acceptable if you're at StackOverflow. A company that has truly changed the way people program, and hard to find a programmer that hasn't used their products. But most companies aren't so, and candidates expect recruiters to tell you what it is they're looking for.
- jc4p 10y ago
  I actually started doing this when I worked at a 3 person start-up. In a small team I want someone who's also interested in the actual idea we're working on, not just any random developer. It helps that being excited about the idea/platform/etc also helps attract engineers at lower salary than bigger companies.
  - dkopi 10y ago
    In that case - kudos for being able to clearly explain what your company is about and who the founders are. It usually takes me at least a meeting with the founders to get excited about a company. When trading salary for equity, it's not just about being excited about the idea, it's also about being excited about the founders ability to turn that idea in to a product, business and eventually an IPO or M&A.
  - geoelectric 10y ago
    You know, I have to admit that at an early stage startup like that, if I were taking cold applications I'd read the cover letters too. Like you say, attitude and passion is so important at that stage and relationship is so important that it's more like an intro at a dating site.
geoelectric 10y ago
You are quite literally the only hiring manager I've ever heard of in tech who says they're swayed by the cover letter or really even reads the cover letter. I had concluded that, at best, it fed the inside sourcer some talking points with which to sell you internally. Interesting to know that there are exceptions to the rule, but on the whole the cover letter isn't something I'd optimize for. I just don't think it's used that much.
- gearoidoc 10y ago
  Sorry, you're a million miles off the mark. The cover letter is your chance to explain Why you want to apply and Why you'd be a good fit. The resume explains Who you are (professionally). The Why is just as (and sometimes more) important than the Who.
  - geoelectric 10y ago
    Sure, I took job hunting 101 too. I've also been involved in a lot of hiring decisions and a number of these sorts of discussions. The gap in your chances between "I know someone in the company" and "I don't know someone in the company" is so huge that I can't/couldn't imagine a cover letter making a big difference if you don't already know somebody. So my recommendations have normally been around networking or canvasing friends-of-friends to know somebody and then go that route. That said, I have to admit it's been a long time since I've had to do a cold round of applications so I totally accept I've underestimated.
    - jc4p 10y ago
      This is really interesting, I think we've experienced some very different companies! Where I currently worked, I've been the "inside source" for 4 people (2 of which I initially reached out to first), all of them were rejected :(
      - hdctambien 10y ago
        But did they get an interview? A Cover Letter / CV / "Inside Source" isn't (usually) going to get you the job. It's just going to get your foot in the door.
jestar_jokin 10y ago
I agree, cover letters are essential. If you have experience only writing Java web APIs, with no demonstration of competence with implemented anything except that exact tech stack, you'd better explain why you're applying for a position using a different tech stack and writing non-trivial client-side code (in addition to backend work). Otherwise, the resume gets thrown in the "spam" bin.
vonmoltke 10y ago
If 90% of my applications didn't get black-holed or auto-rejected I would generally spend more time on them. For the record, whether or not I spend time tailoring depends on how I judge the company I am applying to. I tailor heavily for companies that are small-ish, that I find through sources like HN, or where I am directly emailing a human. I spend very little time tailoring if I have to go through Taleo/ICIMS/whatever or if my resume is going to a jobs@ email for a big company.
qudat 10y ago
For people that receive hundreds of applications a month this might be a thing, but in smaller cities, the number of applicants can amount to around a dozen a month. I don't get the point of only reading a cover letter when the number of applicants are managable. If a potential employer can't be bothered to even look at my github then why would I try to write a cover letter? Trying goes both ways.
deleted 10y ago
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dozzie 10y ago
> [cover letter] If you don't state why you want to work at the company, how you think you could grow being a part of it, or even mention the company by name explicitly, I ignore the rest of the application. You do realize that your company is (most probably) nothing special and skilled people can be indifferent to being employed by you particularly? The whole premise that a candidate wants to work for you falls apart. Even more so if it was your company (or a head hunter on your behalf) that made the first move. Something along the lines of "I don't know yet why would I want to work for you. It was you who asked me to apply."
- mundo 10y ago
  The point of the cover letter isn't to grovel or lie. "Hey, I saw your posting on Craigslist and I decided to respond because I'd love to find a gig where I can work in Scala" is perfectly acceptable. Just put in enough to show me that you're not applying to every single posting because you're so desperately unemployable.
  - dozzie 10y ago
    > "Hey, I saw your posting on Craigslist and I decided to respond because I'd love to find a gig where I can work in Scala" is perfectly acceptable. So you basically want candidates to duplicate what they already said (should have said) in e-mail with application? What for? > Just put in enough to show me that you're not applying to every single posting because you're so desperately unemployable. And how employability has anything to do with competence? Competence can be estimated from CV (if it was sensibly prepared) enough to invite for interview. Again, what do you expect in the cover letter?
    - mundo 10y ago
      > So you basically want candidates to duplicate what they already said (should have said) in e-mail with application? What for? If you send an email with your CV attached that says something about why you're applying, then that email is the cover letter. > Again, what do you expect in the cover letter? It's just a sample of your business writing. I want you to write a simple, professional-sounding email explaining who you are and why you're interested because I want to know if you can write a simple, professional-sounding email.

by jc4p 10y ago

parennoob 10y ago

Do you also tell your recruiters to look at people individually and customize their introduction emails to the person in question? Most emails I receive from recruiters are extremely templated, and hardly ever mention specific projects or jobs that I might have done. I would feel perfectly comfortable using spray-and-forget with these kinds of companies.

jc4p 10y ago
What you describe is one of my biggest annoyances too, and very common with contingency recruiters. Luckily, our internal recruiters are fantastic and a couple have taught themselves how to program to be able to carry on introductory talks better! Stack Overflow Jobs (our job board) also explicitly disallows this sort of behavior. If a first-touch e-mail doesn't list why the person in particular is being contacted, again, I think it's spam.

jmopr 10y ago

@jc4p I put in the cover letter for every job my bot applies for + I send an additional page customized to the job poster, here is an example: http://job-diana.herokuapp.com/users/jobs/07c5807d0d927dcd0980f86024e5208b http://job-diana.herokuapp.com/users/jobs/07c5807d0d927dcd09... And here is the automated cover letter: Dear Hiring Manager, Hello, my name is Juan Ortiz. Nice to meet you! I actually wrote a bot to automatically apply to your job because it looks like it's a #{fit} fit for my skills - my matching algorithm actually said there is #{percent}% chance you'd be interested in interviewing me. You can check out the match profile I created for your job posting here: #{url_for_analysis} I'd really love the opportunity to interview at #{company_name} for the open #{job_title} position. Thanks again. You can reach me at #{phone_number} if you'd like to chat. P.S. if you're interested in how my bot is actually handling applications for me, you can check out the source code that applied on github: #{link_to_github}.

jc4p 10y ago
The additional page thing makes me feel better. I think it's a really cool project, and sharing the percent match with the person is genius. The cover letter in the example isn't really a cover letter, though. A bare-minimum cover letter would to me include _reasons_, e.g. "I've been teaching myself Rust in my off-time and migrating over from a mobile engineer to working in Rust full time really excites me."
okc 10y ago
Excellent. I'd love to see a not that handles recruitment too.
justinlardinois 10y ago
> my matching algorithm actually said there is #{percent}% chance you'd be interested in interviewing me Of course anyone reading that would be skeptical, but I wonder if a high number would have a subconscious effect on them regardless.
- notahacker 10y ago
  I'd have thought it was the opposite: any hiring manager is going to totally disregard the percentage (and the automated application) except for the small fraction of hiring managers that think "writing a job application bot... that's exactly the sort of outside-the-box approach we're looking for round here". For that fraction, seeing a low percentage match might dent that enthusiasm.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 10y ago
    I'll go out on a limb and say that 99% of technical hiring managers seeing that the application was written by a bot will want to interview that guy today. Said it so many times before, it's shit like this that puts you way ahead of the crowd when it comes to interviewing.
    - justinlardinois 10y ago

zippergz 10y ago

Interesting. I've interviewed hundreds of people, and hired dozens of software engineers and similar positions, and I can't remember a single time a cover letter has made a difference. I rarely even read them. That's not to say I endorse this spray and pray approach - just that the cover letter isn't really the issue for me.

thebouv 10y ago
Same here. I pay little to no attention to the cover letter, nor do I ever write them myself. His spray and pray method is no worse than the dozens of mismatched, unqualified resumes that get submitted to any job I post anyway.
bjelkeman-again 10y ago
I am the opposite. I have interviewed and subsequently hired very good people primarily on the first contact, which is often a cover letter. The CV also mattered, but in the end, both are just a vehicle to get an interview.
- geoelectric 10y ago
  To be clear, a cold-application cover letter? First contact, yeah, but I've mostly seen it with handshakes, networking, or the type of letter that also namedrops an internal referral.
  - bjelkeman-again 10y ago
    Not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I primarily tried to say that I think the cover letter matters to me. One was so compelling I jumped at the opportunity to talk to the person. Now a very appreciated colleague of mine.
csydas 10y ago
I think it's largely going to depend on on the job, as a cover letter tends to not be a great place to give context as to technical aptitude or skills as much as it will to demeanor and presentability. The former is much more important for engineering positions, the latter for front-end folk that deal more directly with users. That is not to say that there is never any cross-over of the skill sets between the two, but you really don't want to have the "Nick Burns, your company's computer guy" dealing with social stuff if you can avoid it.

jenscow 10y ago

Well, I'm glad someone is taking notice in my cover letters.

rajacombinator 10y ago

The cost/benefit is simply not there for customizing a cover letter for every job you cold apply to.

jc4p 10y ago
I really don't agree with this. I customize my cover letter and resume for every job I apply to.
- johnward 10y ago
  I've applied for around 60 jobs over the last year. I'm not sure how much time was wasted crafting cover letters that actually explain why I would be a good fit. They are not worth the effort. Spray and pray seems like a better approach time wise. You never know what these recruiters actually want, or if they even know, so by the numbers you might get lucky if you just apply for everything. Infact I was just thinking about automating the process yesterday, which is why this post sparked my interest.
  - mikekchar 10y ago
    There seems something not quite right here. I'm trying hard to phrase this in a constructive way, so if I say something that seems unkind, please forgive me. 60 applications in a year seems like a strange rate. That's 12 a month. If you are currently employed and looking casually, then I suppose it's reasonable, but it's really, really low if you are unemployed. Also, the time frame seems really strange. After 12 applications in a month, I would expect at least 1 interview. If you are doing this consistently then a reasonable target would be to expect to be hired in about 3 months. So with a year of this, if you haven't been hired, then I think something has gone wrong. I wonder if you are experiencing problems with having a high rate of rejection, which might actually be made worse with automation. I've given this advice before, but I'll try to keep it short this time. Job searching is a full time job. Even if you are currently employed, it really makes sense to prioritise some of your personal time to work on it as if it were a part time job. Your CV is really important. If you are not getting interviews with 10-20% of your applications, then I would focus on it first. Go to the library and read a few books on writing a resume. It helped me dramatically when I was first starting out. Take your CV to friends in the industry and ask for feedback. Also, if you are lucky enough to be in a big vibrant city, you should prioritise going to meet ups as often as you can. Print personal business cards with a link to your online CV. Get stuck in and talk to people. It doesn't come easily to some, but you get better with practice. Get in the habit of giving your card to people. If they mention that they are hiring, make sure to get their contact details and follow up with an email later. These days I think it is almost imperative if you are a programmer to have a portfolio. Many people put a link to their github account. Often when I look I find a collection of half-hearted Rails projects 90% of which is generated code. A portfolio should be organized. It should highlight your skills. Even a single project can be your portfolio. The automation project here would make a fantastic portfolio project for a junior-intermediate programmer. Personally, I would interview them on the strength of the initiative alone. Build at least one interesting and useful project. Or build many katas and explain why you think they are good katas. Or write lots of blog posts. Organize them into a website and make it easy to find the bits that show your good points. In the past, my portfolio has outright given me jobs. Getting your CV in order and getting a good portfolio together is a huge job. It can take a month of full time work to get something worth presenting. But it's worth it. After you get it started, you should try to spend some time on your portfolio every week to keep it fresh and interesting. That way it gets stronger over time. Finally interviews. These are skills. I will give you a good tip. Nobody interviews someone that they think they aren't going to hire. It makes no sense. So in a way, the job is already yours by the time you get to the interview. Your job is to confirm their suspicion that you have the skills for the job and that you will fit well into their team. Honestly, a good rate is about 1-2 offers per 3 interviews. That seems very high, but like I said, the job is already yours if you get to the interview. If you are having trouble getting the offers, again visit your library and read books on job interviews (there are lots of them). Go and practice with friends in the industry and get feedback. One small tip I'll leave you with is that it is just as important that you interview the company than the company interviews you. Usually I find that with 3 interviews, in 1 we both realize that it is not a good fit. In another only one of us realizes it is not a good fit. In the last, there is an offer that is accepted. Anyway, I failed to keep this short (again). I really should write a blog post (or several) about it. I hope it helps you (or someone else who stumbles across it). After saying all that, a cover letter is quite important. But I hope you can see that it is the icing on the cake. Compared to everything else you need to do, it takes almost no time.

dikdik 10y ago

A lot of people find the "grovel and tell me how much you love me" environment to not be so great.

jc4p 10y ago
This is a pessimistic view of what I'm recommending! I don't want fake praise, I want reasons why they're a good fit for my company and why my company is a good fit for them. Even if it's a company they've never heard of, a "I think it'd be really cool to work on a product in the {$FIELD} space" catches the eye on a cover letter.
untog 10y ago
Oh, come on. If you're not interested in a job you should be applying for a different one (in today's developer job market, that is). Asking an applicant to express why they are interested is not unreasonable.
- developer2 10y ago
  The cynical view is adopted by some after having been employed by multiple companies, and discovering that they're mostly interchangeable. The majority of employers are not unique, are not offering anything special compared to other businesses, and should not be pretending otherwise by making candidates grovel like peasants trying to get a job working for the royal family. Most positions do not require a "match made in heaven", but many interviews are conducted in such a way that candidates have to jump through hoops to prove just how compatible they are. I have yet to participate in an interview that focused on the quality of the employer-employee match, where I have not spewed nonsense in order to "pass the test". I remember an article that laid out how this can be viewed as a positive process; that it tests whether the candidate is capable of handling awkward situations diplomatically (or something to that effect). That we as a society consider being completely fake to be a good thing blows my mind. --- Question: Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Given Answer: I'd like to work up from my existing position as a senior developer to a team lead position, and possibly another step up or two from there. Real Answer: I love the work I do as a developer, and do not wish to climb the corporate ladder. I figure this might change as I get older, but for now I am happy with what I do. --- Question: Why would you be a better fit compared to another candidate? Given Answer: The job listing mentioned X, and I have a lot of experience with X. The listing also mentioned Y, and I am very interested in gaining more experience with Y. I like element Z of your culture. Real Answer: I match most or all of the requirements you mentioned in your listing. Every candidate you interviewed probably does. Just hire someone and see whether it works out for you. --- Question: Why did you leave your last job? Given Answer: No opportunity to advance, or accomplished the tasks the employer had primarily hired me for. Real Answer: Boss was incompetent, HR introduced unacceptable policies, or management put a stop to salary increases / bonuses that have been around for years.

dkopi 10y ago

Fairly acceptable if you're at StackOverflow. A company that has truly changed the way people program, and hard to find a programmer that hasn't used their products. But most companies aren't so, and candidates expect recruiters to tell you what it is they're looking for.

jc4p 10y ago
I actually started doing this when I worked at a 3 person start-up. In a small team I want someone who's also interested in the actual idea we're working on, not just any random developer. It helps that being excited about the idea/platform/etc also helps attract engineers at lower salary than bigger companies.
- dkopi 10y ago
  In that case - kudos for being able to clearly explain what your company is about and who the founders are. It usually takes me at least a meeting with the founders to get excited about a company. When trading salary for equity, it's not just about being excited about the idea, it's also about being excited about the founders ability to turn that idea in to a product, business and eventually an IPO or M&A.
- geoelectric 10y ago
  You know, I have to admit that at an early stage startup like that, if I were taking cold applications I'd read the cover letters too. Like you say, attitude and passion is so important at that stage and relationship is so important that it's more like an intro at a dating site.

geoelectric 10y ago

You are quite literally the only hiring manager I've ever heard of in tech who says they're swayed by the cover letter or really even reads the cover letter. I had concluded that, at best, it fed the inside sourcer some talking points with which to sell you internally. Interesting to know that there are exceptions to the rule, but on the whole the cover letter isn't something I'd optimize for. I just don't think it's used that much.

gearoidoc 10y ago
Sorry, you're a million miles off the mark. The cover letter is your chance to explain Why you want to apply and Why you'd be a good fit. The resume explains Who you are (professionally). The Why is just as (and sometimes more) important than the Who.
- geoelectric 10y ago
  Sure, I took job hunting 101 too. I've also been involved in a lot of hiring decisions and a number of these sorts of discussions. The gap in your chances between "I know someone in the company" and "I don't know someone in the company" is so huge that I can't/couldn't imagine a cover letter making a big difference if you don't already know somebody. So my recommendations have normally been around networking or canvasing friends-of-friends to know somebody and then go that route. That said, I have to admit it's been a long time since I've had to do a cold round of applications so I totally accept I've underestimated.
  - jc4p 10y ago
    This is really interesting, I think we've experienced some very different companies! Where I currently worked, I've been the "inside source" for 4 people (2 of which I initially reached out to first), all of them were rejected :(
    - hdctambien 10y ago
      But did they get an interview? A Cover Letter / CV / "Inside Source" isn't (usually) going to get you the job. It's just going to get your foot in the door.

jestar_jokin 10y ago

I agree, cover letters are essential. If you have experience only writing Java web APIs, with no demonstration of competence with implemented anything except that exact tech stack, you'd better explain why you're applying for a position using a different tech stack and writing non-trivial client-side code (in addition to backend work). Otherwise, the resume gets thrown in the "spam" bin.

vonmoltke 10y ago

If 90% of my applications didn't get black-holed or auto-rejected I would generally spend more time on them. For the record, whether or not I spend time tailoring depends on how I judge the company I am applying to. I tailor heavily for companies that are small-ish, that I find through sources like HN, or where I am directly emailing a human. I spend very little time tailoring if I have to go through Taleo/ICIMS/whatever or if my resume is going to a jobs@ email for a big company.

qudat 10y ago

For people that receive hundreds of applications a month this might be a thing, but in smaller cities, the number of applicants can amount to around a dozen a month. I don't get the point of only reading a cover letter when the number of applicants are managable. If a potential employer can't be bothered to even look at my github then why would I try to write a cover letter? Trying goes both ways.

deleted 10y ago

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dozzie 10y ago

> [cover letter] If you don't state why you want to work at the company, how you think you could grow being a part of it, or even mention the company by name explicitly, I ignore the rest of the application. You do realize that your company is (most probably) nothing special and skilled people can be indifferent to being employed by you particularly? The whole premise that a candidate wants to work for you falls apart. Even more so if it was your company (or a head hunter on your behalf) that made the first move. Something along the lines of "I don't know yet why would I want to work for you. It was you who asked me to apply."

mundo 10y ago
The point of the cover letter isn't to grovel or lie. "Hey, I saw your posting on Craigslist and I decided to respond because I'd love to find a gig where I can work in Scala" is perfectly acceptable. Just put in enough to show me that you're not applying to every single posting because you're so desperately unemployable.
- dozzie 10y ago
  > "Hey, I saw your posting on Craigslist and I decided to respond because I'd love to find a gig where I can work in Scala" is perfectly acceptable. So you basically want candidates to duplicate what they already said (should have said) in e-mail with application? What for? > Just put in enough to show me that you're not applying to every single posting because you're so desperately unemployable. And how employability has anything to do with competence? Competence can be estimated from CV (if it was sensibly prepared) enough to invite for interview. Again, what do you expect in the cover letter?
  - mundo 10y ago
    > So you basically want candidates to duplicate what they already said (should have said) in e-mail with application? What for? If you send an email with your CV attached that says something about why you're applying, then that email is the cover letter. > Again, what do you expect in the cover letter? It's just a sample of your business writing. I want you to write a simple, professional-sounding email explaining who you are and why you're interested because I want to know if you can write a simple, professional-sounding email.