9 ms·

A 54-year-old custodian just graduated from the college he cleaned at night

199 points by shawndumas 10y ago

pigpaws 10y ago
lets see the HN's millennials explain this one away... /going to get popcorn.
- dang 10y ago
  Please stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN.
  - pigpaws 10y ago
    It started a conversation, didn't it? \you're welcome.
    - dang 10y ago
      That can be said of any trolling. We want higher-quality conversation here.
      - pigpaws 10y ago
        trolling? trolling implies stirring up trouble for no reason. I really did want to see how the 'millennials' would explain away yet another reason for not working hard (as is the stereotype). I see a lot of slanted opinions here - which - if that's your audience, fine (echo chamber). But the process of down-voting people just because they go against the grain is a type of censorship. true - its not what down-voting is 'supposed' to be used for (have you read the guidelines?), but unless you're going to police that as well, get off my case. You could always require a reply when down-voting. That would also inspire more conversation.
- nsxwolf 10y ago
  That was a pretty content-less post. Care to elaborate? I don't even have a guess as to what you'd think millennials would have to say about it. Student loan debt, or something?
  - pigpaws 10y ago
    the reply from 'adrusi' pretty much explains the 'millennial stereotype' to a tee. similar to other articles and conversation on here re: actually showing up to work on time. people have a problem with this? why do in 10yrs what most can do in 4? why work hard? why aren't we like Europe? a lot of crying but very little work ethic. most millennials were brought up by helicopter parents who tended their every need, and on kissed every boo-boo. These same millennials demand that society treat them with respect, and then actively avoid anything that would let them earn that respect. Sorry, getting a BS degree in pop-culture & disc golf is not something that will get you automatic respect. My doctor is a 'millennial', younger than I am by a stretch. She broke her ass doing it. I respect her more for it. Granted - this is the stereotype and doesn't apply to all - but does apply to most of the ones I've interacted with, interviewed and worked with, and of course, read about in the 'media'). true - degrees cost vastly more today than they did just 10 years ago. But look at the education structure. Look who its led by. Your deans and professors are no longer happy with tenure. They want the Mercedes, the flat screens, the 2nd house, the IRA, etc... The current education system is the mirror equivalent of the military industrial complex in terms of money. If you want to go after someone for expensive college, go after the schools and the politicians - not society in general. btw, have you seen Europe lately? Venezuela?... people like to point to these as panaceas, without knowing the intimate details of the individual countries and how the education systems work there. Want to be an engineer? pass a test. can't pass? here's a mop. how about Asia? there is massive and wide-spread cheating in India and China because of their systems. doesn't exactly make for a solid and ethical work base.
- Zikes 10y ago
  > So Vaudreuil starting taking undergraduate classes tuition free at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Massachusetts by day, and cleaning up after his classmates by night. There ya go.
- adrusi 10y ago
  Why, because it goes against the "college is too expensive" rhetoric? The man had to work as a custodian full-time for this to work, and it took him nearly a decade to earn a four-year degree. Are you suggesting that it's reasonable for people from less-affluent backgrounds to have to spend their entire twenties working their way through school while the more affluent finish at 22? And, moreover, this only worked because he got a custodial job at a university, and one which offered good benefits. Last year I lived in a dorm at the University of Maryland and one of the custodians that cleaned the hallway was taking classes similarly to the man in the article (although he was much younger). He told me that it's hard to get a job at the university because of the better benefits, he was able to get it because he had previous custodial experience and because he was interviewed by someone sympathetic to his goal. It's not like this is something that just anyone could do.
  - ProAm 10y ago
    > Are you suggesting that it's reasonable for people from less-affluent backgrounds to have to spend their entire twenties working their way through school while the more affluent finish at 22? Yes. > He told me that it's hard to get a job at the university because of the better benefits, he was able to get it because he had previous custodial experience and because he was interviewed by someone sympathetic to his goal. So he worked hard, found a plan and made it happen? This is what you are supposed to do. > It's not like this is something that just anyone could do. It absolutely is, maybe not this exact plan, but determination, patience and grit go a long ways.
    - warmblood 10y ago
      It bears repeating that privilege generally sees fair treatment as a step down.
    - cmaher 10y ago
      > > Are you suggesting that it's reasonable for people from less-affluent backgrounds to have to spend their entire twenties working their way through school while the more affluent finish at 22? > Yes. Why? What positive economic impact does this have? How can you justify 4+ years of lost positive contribution by these individuals to the economy? How is that economically efficient? What metrics are you basing your reasoning on?
LionessLover 10y ago
I read this when it was first published and while it's impressive for sure this is easily overlooked: > Decades earlier, in 1982, Vaudreuil received an associate’s degree in aeronautical engineering, but didn’t pursue his chosen career in the struggling airline industry. So he had significant prior training in a related field. Also, maybe that's my European bias, but I'm not so thrilled about this story because to my mind it shouldn't have been so hard for him in the first place to get that education, and some more aid after a normal failure in life. I mean, are we making lives hard so that we can then celebrate the few(!) successes as if they prove anything? Like, that making lives in one of the richest countries in the entire million year history of mankind hard is a good thing? This is like a Roman circus, we throw people into the arena and then celebrate the few who make it out again as "heroes". "Are You Not Entertained?" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs)
- chfjdjcjdjd 10y ago
  An associate's in AeroE would amount to nothing beyond a few calculus and physics classes. All of the important stuff is in the second two years.
  - LionessLover 10y ago
    > nothing beyond a few calculus and physics classes With this quote of your own comment I rest my case :-)
    - chfjdjcjdjd 10y ago
      None of that material is relevant to aeronautical engineering: he just completed two years of general education. He didn't take thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, aerodynamics, heat transfer, combustions, or any of the other relevant aeronautics material.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- jacobush 10y ago
sbjustin 10y ago
Obviously it needs to be said, Good Will Hunting?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
_RPM 10y ago
Reminds me of good will hunting, where he was a janitor but was smarter than professors and really good at math.
- chipotle2 10y ago
  They should make a movie where the professors are smarter than the janitors.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  the GWH morphism problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW_LkYiuTKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW_LkYiuTKE
Johnny555 10y ago
But will that degree help him find a job? And will he get any tangible payoff from the thousands of hours of class & studying (even if it was "free")? (I get that the degree has intangible "I put myself through college!" benefits, but if he was trying to better his situation, was the degree the right choice?) What's the job market like for newly minted mechanical engineers? Does he now face years of apprenticeship to earn his PE so he can really take advantage of the degree? He ran a plastering business for 24 years, would he have been better off taking some business courses to learn how to grow his company and then putting those hours into his business as the economy improved?
- pjmorris 10y ago
  I suppose if he hadn't gone for the degree someone could pose questions like yours about his unwillingness to retrain. And, who knows, maybe he's got a plan to reshape the engineering behind the plastering business. It's probably more profitable and more painful to ponder your own counterfactuals than someone else's.
jaredandrews 10y ago
Ahh, my alma mater! This is exciting for me because the last time WPI was discussed nationally it was due to the comments of graduate and former U.S. Representative Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin.
- progressive_dad 10y ago
  I had quite a few friends who excelled in Science and Tech in highschool and went on to MIT, Stanford, Virginia Tech, GA Tech, Purdue, UofI Urbana, etc. My parents were over 500k in debt when I was applying to colleges and I had a pretty good idea what I wanted to do with my life, so I opted for an associates degree from a community college and to start my career as a computer programmer as soon as possible. I was making enough money I made it a point to travel to visit my friends and they all seemed miserable, stressed out, disappointed with their choices, frustrated, lost... All except my friend who went to WPI. He was as enthusiastic and happy as ever eating bad Chinese food, bent over 30 half assembled hacked gameboys, same as when I'd last seen him 3 years ago. Its the first place I want to take my son when he's looking at colleges.
  - jaredandrews 10y ago
    I have some qualms with WPI but overall I wouldn't change anything about my college experience. You are correct, most of the kids there are passionate about what they are studying. This is an attribute I found disturbingly absent in many campuses that I visited during my college years. WPI, at least in the CS dept, is very focused on "learning how to learn" which is why I think this happens. Another aspect is the "WPI Plan"[0]. Over the years there have been talks of getting rid of it. But if they don't, definitely encourage your son to consider WPI. Without the plan, I'm not sure what the point of going there would be... Also... Worcester as a city tends to get a lot of shit. This is from people who have never been there or never put in the effort to go off the beaten path there. The "mainstream attractions" in Woo are pretty lame, no doubt. But Worcester is a city that rewards the open minded and creative, not those who enjoy "plug it in and it works" activities. To a certain degree WPI is the same way. Not sure how far off you are from the college touring experience but feel free to shoot me an email (in bio) if you have ever any questions about WPI. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_Polytechnic_Institute#Project_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_Polytechnic_Institut...
dh8 10y ago
See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life: one, don't do that, and two, you dropped 150 grand on a fuckin' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!
- frank_jaeger 10y ago
  See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, you don't read articles you comment on. >Vaudreuil starting taking undergraduate classes tuition free at Worcester Polytechnic Institute. Infinitely cheaper than your $1.50 suggestion.
  - czr80 10y ago
    He or she is quoting Good Will Hunting, I believe.
bvladimir 10y ago
Bothered your spouse might be having an affair? Clear your doubts by Contacting: whitewiz007@programmer.net to check your spouse's sincerity You will be happy or shocked, and for your other hacking needs such as; emails, facebook,social media, CHANGING COLLEGE GRADES, clearing bad records, keeping tabs on employees or getting any classified information
olivermarks 10y ago
I dislike that this piece of writing leads with the guy's age.
stevefeinstein 10y ago
I'm really interested in if he'll find a company that'll hire him despite the fact that age discrimination while illegal is practiced by most companies. I'm 51, and compared to when I was 21 it's way harder, and I'm not even looking for more money than the typical twenty-something.
- reality_czech 10y ago
  The university will hire him to clean the college at night.
- ALee 10y ago
  I can unequivocally say that as an employer we've hired people who are much older and re-trained because they were able to do the job. We're okay with people who have kids or are older, as long as they get the job done. If older people can't get the job done and a younger person can, then so be it.
peterburkimsher 10y ago
This story is like the reverse of Viva La Vida - Coldplay.
drawkbox 10y ago
It is getting better, but adult education options are very poor and few considering careers and jobs change often now, and the skills you need do those jobs change as well. With that environment, you have to cheer anyone past student age that tries to better themselves no matter how they do it. Learning lifelong should be the goal of everyone, constantly improving yourself and learning that you know nothing.
benten10 10y ago
For non-Americans, non-townies, non-Mass people, it's pronounced Woo-stuh. Not Wer-Chest-er. Yeaahhh.

199 points by shawndumas 10y ago

pigpaws 10y ago

lets see the HN's millennials explain this one away... /going to get popcorn.

dang 10y ago
Please stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN.
- pigpaws 10y ago
  It started a conversation, didn't it? \you're welcome.
  - dang 10y ago
    That can be said of any trolling. We want higher-quality conversation here.
    - pigpaws 10y ago
      trolling? trolling implies stirring up trouble for no reason. I really did want to see how the 'millennials' would explain away yet another reason for not working hard (as is the stereotype). I see a lot of slanted opinions here - which - if that's your audience, fine (echo chamber). But the process of down-voting people just because they go against the grain is a type of censorship. true - its not what down-voting is 'supposed' to be used for (have you read the guidelines?), but unless you're going to police that as well, get off my case. You could always require a reply when down-voting. That would also inspire more conversation.
nsxwolf 10y ago
That was a pretty content-less post. Care to elaborate? I don't even have a guess as to what you'd think millennials would have to say about it. Student loan debt, or something?
- pigpaws 10y ago
  the reply from 'adrusi' pretty much explains the 'millennial stereotype' to a tee. similar to other articles and conversation on here re: actually showing up to work on time. people have a problem with this? why do in 10yrs what most can do in 4? why work hard? why aren't we like Europe? a lot of crying but very little work ethic. most millennials were brought up by helicopter parents who tended their every need, and on kissed every boo-boo. These same millennials demand that society treat them with respect, and then actively avoid anything that would let them earn that respect. Sorry, getting a BS degree in pop-culture & disc golf is not something that will get you automatic respect. My doctor is a 'millennial', younger than I am by a stretch. She broke her ass doing it. I respect her more for it. Granted - this is the stereotype and doesn't apply to all - but does apply to most of the ones I've interacted with, interviewed and worked with, and of course, read about in the 'media'). true - degrees cost vastly more today than they did just 10 years ago. But look at the education structure. Look who its led by. Your deans and professors are no longer happy with tenure. They want the Mercedes, the flat screens, the 2nd house, the IRA, etc... The current education system is the mirror equivalent of the military industrial complex in terms of money. If you want to go after someone for expensive college, go after the schools and the politicians - not society in general. btw, have you seen Europe lately? Venezuela?... people like to point to these as panaceas, without knowing the intimate details of the individual countries and how the education systems work there. Want to be an engineer? pass a test. can't pass? here's a mop. how about Asia? there is massive and wide-spread cheating in India and China because of their systems. doesn't exactly make for a solid and ethical work base.
Zikes 10y ago
> So Vaudreuil starting taking undergraduate classes tuition free at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Massachusetts by day, and cleaning up after his classmates by night. There ya go.
adrusi 10y ago
Why, because it goes against the "college is too expensive" rhetoric? The man had to work as a custodian full-time for this to work, and it took him nearly a decade to earn a four-year degree. Are you suggesting that it's reasonable for people from less-affluent backgrounds to have to spend their entire twenties working their way through school while the more affluent finish at 22? And, moreover, this only worked because he got a custodial job at a university, and one which offered good benefits. Last year I lived in a dorm at the University of Maryland and one of the custodians that cleaned the hallway was taking classes similarly to the man in the article (although he was much younger). He told me that it's hard to get a job at the university because of the better benefits, he was able to get it because he had previous custodial experience and because he was interviewed by someone sympathetic to his goal. It's not like this is something that just anyone could do.
- ProAm 10y ago
  > Are you suggesting that it's reasonable for people from less-affluent backgrounds to have to spend their entire twenties working their way through school while the more affluent finish at 22? Yes. > He told me that it's hard to get a job at the university because of the better benefits, he was able to get it because he had previous custodial experience and because he was interviewed by someone sympathetic to his goal. So he worked hard, found a plan and made it happen? This is what you are supposed to do. > It's not like this is something that just anyone could do. It absolutely is, maybe not this exact plan, but determination, patience and grit go a long ways.
  - warmblood 10y ago
    It bears repeating that privilege generally sees fair treatment as a step down.
  - cmaher 10y ago
    > > Are you suggesting that it's reasonable for people from less-affluent backgrounds to have to spend their entire twenties working their way through school while the more affluent finish at 22? > Yes. Why? What positive economic impact does this have? How can you justify 4+ years of lost positive contribution by these individuals to the economy? How is that economically efficient? What metrics are you basing your reasoning on?

LionessLover 10y ago

I read this when it was first published and while it's impressive for sure this is easily overlooked: > Decades earlier, in 1982, Vaudreuil received an associate’s degree in aeronautical engineering, but didn’t pursue his chosen career in the struggling airline industry. So he had significant prior training in a related field. Also, maybe that's my European bias, but I'm not so thrilled about this story because to my mind it shouldn't have been so hard for him in the first place to get that education, and some more aid after a normal failure in life. I mean, are we making lives hard so that we can then celebrate the few(!) successes as if they prove anything? Like, that making lives in one of the richest countries in the entire million year history of mankind hard is a good thing? This is like a Roman circus, we throw people into the arena and then celebrate the few who make it out again as "heroes". "Are You Not Entertained?" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs)

chfjdjcjdjd 10y ago
An associate's in AeroE would amount to nothing beyond a few calculus and physics classes. All of the important stuff is in the second two years.
- LionessLover 10y ago
  > nothing beyond a few calculus and physics classes With this quote of your own comment I rest my case :-)
  - chfjdjcjdjd 10y ago
    None of that material is relevant to aeronautical engineering: he just completed two years of general education. He didn't take thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, aerodynamics, heat transfer, combustions, or any of the other relevant aeronautics material.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
jacobush 10y ago

sbjustin 10y ago

Obviously it needs to be said, Good Will Hunting?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

_RPM 10y ago

Reminds me of good will hunting, where he was a janitor but was smarter than professors and really good at math.

chipotle2 10y ago
They should make a movie where the professors are smarter than the janitors.
agumonkey 10y ago
the GWH morphism problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW_LkYiuTKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW_LkYiuTKE

Johnny555 10y ago

But will that degree help him find a job? And will he get any tangible payoff from the thousands of hours of class & studying (even if it was "free")? (I get that the degree has intangible "I put myself through college!" benefits, but if he was trying to better his situation, was the degree the right choice?) What's the job market like for newly minted mechanical engineers? Does he now face years of apprenticeship to earn his PE so he can really take advantage of the degree? He ran a plastering business for 24 years, would he have been better off taking some business courses to learn how to grow his company and then putting those hours into his business as the economy improved?

pjmorris 10y ago
I suppose if he hadn't gone for the degree someone could pose questions like yours about his unwillingness to retrain. And, who knows, maybe he's got a plan to reshape the engineering behind the plastering business. It's probably more profitable and more painful to ponder your own counterfactuals than someone else's.

jaredandrews 10y ago

Ahh, my alma mater! This is exciting for me because the last time WPI was discussed nationally it was due to the comments of graduate and former U.S. Representative Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin.

progressive_dad 10y ago
I had quite a few friends who excelled in Science and Tech in highschool and went on to MIT, Stanford, Virginia Tech, GA Tech, Purdue, UofI Urbana, etc. My parents were over 500k in debt when I was applying to colleges and I had a pretty good idea what I wanted to do with my life, so I opted for an associates degree from a community college and to start my career as a computer programmer as soon as possible. I was making enough money I made it a point to travel to visit my friends and they all seemed miserable, stressed out, disappointed with their choices, frustrated, lost... All except my friend who went to WPI. He was as enthusiastic and happy as ever eating bad Chinese food, bent over 30 half assembled hacked gameboys, same as when I'd last seen him 3 years ago. Its the first place I want to take my son when he's looking at colleges.
- jaredandrews 10y ago
  I have some qualms with WPI but overall I wouldn't change anything about my college experience. You are correct, most of the kids there are passionate about what they are studying. This is an attribute I found disturbingly absent in many campuses that I visited during my college years. WPI, at least in the CS dept, is very focused on "learning how to learn" which is why I think this happens. Another aspect is the "WPI Plan"[0]. Over the years there have been talks of getting rid of it. But if they don't, definitely encourage your son to consider WPI. Without the plan, I'm not sure what the point of going there would be... Also... Worcester as a city tends to get a lot of shit. This is from people who have never been there or never put in the effort to go off the beaten path there. The "mainstream attractions" in Woo are pretty lame, no doubt. But Worcester is a city that rewards the open minded and creative, not those who enjoy "plug it in and it works" activities. To a certain degree WPI is the same way. Not sure how far off you are from the college touring experience but feel free to shoot me an email (in bio) if you have ever any questions about WPI. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_Polytechnic_Institute#Project_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_Polytechnic_Institut...

dh8 10y ago

See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life: one, don't do that, and two, you dropped 150 grand on a fuckin' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!

frank_jaeger 10y ago
See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, you don't read articles you comment on. >Vaudreuil starting taking undergraduate classes tuition free at Worcester Polytechnic Institute. Infinitely cheaper than your $1.50 suggestion.
- czr80 10y ago
  He or she is quoting Good Will Hunting, I believe.

bvladimir 10y ago

Bothered your spouse might be having an affair? Clear your doubts by Contacting: whitewiz007@programmer.net to check your spouse's sincerity You will be happy or shocked, and for your other hacking needs such as; emails, facebook,social media, CHANGING COLLEGE GRADES, clearing bad records, keeping tabs on employees or getting any classified information

olivermarks 10y ago

I dislike that this piece of writing leads with the guy's age.

stevefeinstein 10y ago

I'm really interested in if he'll find a company that'll hire him despite the fact that age discrimination while illegal is practiced by most companies. I'm 51, and compared to when I was 21 it's way harder, and I'm not even looking for more money than the typical twenty-something.

reality_czech 10y ago
The university will hire him to clean the college at night.
ALee 10y ago
I can unequivocally say that as an employer we've hired people who are much older and re-trained because they were able to do the job. We're okay with people who have kids or are older, as long as they get the job done. If older people can't get the job done and a younger person can, then so be it.

peterburkimsher 10y ago

This story is like the reverse of Viva La Vida - Coldplay.

drawkbox 10y ago

It is getting better, but adult education options are very poor and few considering careers and jobs change often now, and the skills you need do those jobs change as well. With that environment, you have to cheer anyone past student age that tries to better themselves no matter how they do it. Learning lifelong should be the goal of everyone, constantly improving yourself and learning that you know nothing.

benten10 10y ago

For non-Americans, non-townies, non-Mass people, it's pronounced Woo-stuh. Not Wer-Chest-er. Yeaahhh.